How to Create Success from the Inside Out with Hope Howland

Kathryn Thompson  00:00

Hey, hey, I am super stoked to have hope on the show today. I know we connected over on Instagram. So lovely to have you on. And we're going to chat all things success, which is amazing. Talk about your book. But without further ado, I'm just gonna turn it right over to you hope so that you can let our listeners know who you are and what you do.

Hope Howland  00:20

Thank you so much for having me, Katherine. It's such an honor to be here. I am Hope Howland, I am a business coach and mentor. And I'm an author of a personal development book for entrepreneurs called inside success. It is all about how to really build success on the inside first, so that you can achieve the things that you longed for in your business and your life, etc.

Kathryn Thompson  00:45

Yeah, so amazing. And I know that I always kind of go in themes. And I know my listeners are used to that, right? It's like I bring on guests that kind of can give all the different angles. And I know, we've been talking a lot about success. And one of the things I talk about often is success, and what that actually looks like I know that we can get kind of we look outside of ourselves and compare ourselves to what we see on social media sometimes. And it's hard, it's easy to sort of like get down on ourselves. So I'd love for you to kind of share a bit about what inspired you to like publish the book or write the book.

Hope Howland  01:18

Yeah, yeah. Well, as a business coach, this wasn't my first career. My this. So I know you get this, Katherine. Yeah. Pivoting is my thing. I'm doing it. 

Kathryn Thompson  01:31

Yeah, totally.

Hope Howland  01:33

So my first career as an entrepreneur was in network marketing, and I started with this company, I sold makeup, I loved their mission, and I loved the quality of the product. And I dove right in because I wanted to quit my job in customer service. And five years later, I had a team of over 100 people, women, and loved what I did, I was successful on the outside by leadership rank, accolades, and things like that. But I was not balanced and healthy, and how I approached business life and what it meant for me to succeed. And there was a point in my career where, you know, you can avoid certain things for so long, and then all of a sudden, it's just gonna start showing up everywhere. Yeah, these things were not going great in my company, and not in like a corporate setting. But just in my own business, it wasn't going great. There were some shifts that needed to be made. And I had this thought that popped in my head that said, what, you know, I, if I don't do this, then I don't even know who I am. And that freaked me. Right out. Yeah, because all of a sudden, it was like this, like, wake up call, you know, those subconscious thoughts that just come in, like, super fast, didn't say things that you're like, Whoa, whoa, oh, that's, that's not attractive hope. So I realized in and have done a ton of other personal development, up to that point, anyway, that I was putting my identity in my career. And not in knowing who I was intrinsically, as a woman, as a wife, as a, as a daughter, you know, just being me, you know, and that put me on this journey of really kind of real, coming into real alignment of what, what it looks like to be fulfilled in what you do and find purpose in what you do, but not getting my full identity from it. And then I realized, that is a definition of success. Because don't we all really want to know, we are

Kathryn Thompson  03:57

100%

Hope Howland  04:00

Like, everyone wants to know who the frick, they are, you know, so like, if we, if we're looking for some sort of identity, if we're looking for some sort of, I think this is who I am, all of a sudden it can fill a void that was there was never meant to be filled by career. And that's what brought me to write this book. So fast forwarding a lot, a lot of things happening. In 2020. I had transitioned out of network marketing, and I was in full-time coaching. I was a coach for a coaching company. And they had to downsize because of COVID. First, you know, of course, so I lost my job. And it was devastating. We had just, you know, it was just like everybody's life that happened in April of 2020. So, I found myself in this unemployment, with overqualified for things that I was never planning on having to Be, and do of looking for a job for the first time and forever. And I kept hitting those getting those noes. And at this point we're gonna move on with other applicants' emails, you know. And it was just this knowing and trust and my heart and I knew from also God because I'm a person of faith. Yeah, I was supposed to write out my non-compete and write this book. And amazing. That's what it came out of the summer of 2020. And it got published in 2021.

Kathryn Thompson  05:32

So beautiful. And it's so true that like, it's so crazy that 2020 felt like ages ago, you know, like, I feel like I've lived like two decades in the last two years. Are we gonna have we kind of have, you know, yeah, totally. But the whole identity piece, I want to dive into that a bit. Because I know, when I quit corporate spent 15 years in corporate mind listeners know this, if they've been listening for a while I talk about it all the time. And nobody talked about this to me, when I jumped feet first in entrepreneurship and opened my wine business. Nobody told me that I'd go through like this six months of like, identity basically dying, and people are like, What do you mean, your identity died, and like, my whole identity was wrapped up in corporate. And then I was now I didn't have a corporate job. And I was going off to make and produce and sell wine, which was super fun. But it was just such a different identity. And so it's so beautiful. That one that you touch on the fact that we wrapped so much up in what we do as like, the thing, right? And really, at the end of the day, it's about being who you truly are. Yeah, and expressing that. Yeah, right. Um, so in terms of writing the book, was it sort was it cathartic for you to write it? Like, was it kind of a cathartic journey of like, you know, this is coming home to myself in a lot of ways, but I know it's gonna help other people.

Hope Howland  06:56

Yeah. And love that question. I, you know, it was cathartic. It also was, at that point, some lessons weren't new. It was just, I had never had a way to communicate it in a larger platform. Or I was always a long-form writer in social media, I still am like, like, Instagram is like, hey, hope, to 102,200 characters only like, and I'm like, Oh, yeah. Yeah. So like, I already was a writer, but I didn't have the framework of like, oh, like, No, this can go into a book. And this is going to help way more people than I can actually reach personally, you know, and it leaves on an eternity in some form, you know, like, it, it just, it was the right path for me. But it was also very cathartic in the fact that you know, when you're looking at lessons that every entrepreneur goes through, I had to sit and pause and think, Okay, what would I have given to have been told, you know, two years ago, last month, you know, like, like, and that's where I kind of wrote from, and so I started from an outline of Biggie subjects, like fear, and relationships in a bisate. Like, you know, like this, we, as entrepreneurs, there's no like guidebook that says, Hey, by the way, you're gonna have you're gonna need to have boundaries when it comes to looking at your phone. Yeah. Don't look at your phone during date nights, you know, like, Hey, by the way, yeah. So like, there was like, stuff like that, that I was like, wrestling with and processing, but then have walked through and learn from. And then there was also new ideas and wisdom that came to me while I was writing. So it was a combination of both. So said, it's your question.

Kathryn Thompson  08:56

Yeah, so cool. And I think it's so interesting, too, because, yeah, nobody prepares you. There's no guidebook, like you said, for entrepreneurship. And it was kind of like, you know, when I, Yeah, and I came from a long line of entrepreneurs. So I feel like, I felt like I grew up in a house with my dad who owned his own business, and my grandfather who owned his business, and yet, for some reason, I didn't necessarily maybe pick up on, and I think, again, different times when they were starting their businesses and whatnot. Like I was super young, and probably not even born to some degree when they were starting their businesses. But, you know, it's that whole thing about boundaries of like, your phone, it's like, you know, I remember feeling overworked in corporate. And then I was like, what? So I've traded in a nine to five for like, three, nine to five now, what the hell is that?

Hope Howland  09:41

And now when you don't do well, it has nothing to do with your boss's opinion. It has everything to do with my ability, my mindset, my like, character, my work ethic. Well, clearly, I'm not I mean, like, we trade it in somebody else's opinion for our worst negative opinion of ourselves. ELLs? Totally. It's like fire pan fire.

Kathryn Thompson  10:07

Totally, totally. And I never really thought about it that way, you know, again, right? Because I stepped, I feel like I kind of, I won't say dabbled in the personal brand. But I stepped into entrepreneurship producing a product and selling a product. And yes, there was a lot attached to that, in that I wanted to deliver really great wine to people. But personal brands and the online coaching space is a whole nother ballgame. Because it's like, exactly that right is like this. I've heard someone say like personal development on steroids sometimes because you're just learning so much about who you are. And, and I think what's beautiful is that it's like full circle back to like, identifying what success means to you. And, and coming kind of home to that in a lot of ways. What are the biggest lessons, I guess that you've learned on this journey, one of publishing a book, but also when it comes to success?

Hope Howland  11:05

That, um, well, first of publishing a book, it's incredibly vulnerable. I've joked with my clients saying, you know, when you put yourself out there, it does quite a bit feel like that dream that you get when you're in high school, but you're back in high school, and all of a sudden, you're walking in the lunchroom, and you have no shirt on? It's like that vulnerable, like, Oh, God, yeah, it was I put it, I didn't think I was going to feel that like, nerves of publishing something and I'm self-published. So I had to do a lot more legwork, than others. But that's the beauty of self-publishing that I was able to get it out there, you know. But I definitely walked through a lot of internal fear of what if no one likes this? What if? What if I don't make sense? You know, like, it makes sense to

Kathryn Thompson  11:59

me. But whatever doesn't make sense. Anybody else?

Hope Howland  12:03

All right, or is this what if this is just nobody cares? You know, and it's not relevant. And then I had to kind of cut and I wrestled this with this when I was in the process of writing, not so much when I was just about to go and publish, you know, like, not so much that it there. But it was this kind of, like, realization that if one person read it, if one person read it, and was thought of themselves better, and thought of their process in life and business, a little bit more clear, and a little bit more hopeful than I was a success, that was my marker of success. And I completely forgotten about that. And, and just decided, and then I sent my book off to my launch team. So fast forward a year, sent my book off to my launch team, that you can't buy it on Amazon. Yeah, you know, so there's just this beautiful PDF going out into the world. And I sent it off, and I just would bed, it was fine. And woke up next morning, a text being my phone. And people cry emoji, you know, like gushing eyes, you know, thank you so much for writing this book. And it's on a bestseller list. But it doesn't need to be because I had to accomplish the one goal that I had set out, which was one person being affected, which is more than one now. And I'm so grateful. But I believe when you have hope and a goal in your heart, you need to define the marker of success. And that that success does not necessarily mean that you are going to hit major milestones and accolades or go viral or, or, you know, be supported by your book sales for the rest of your life. Like, know it, your purpose of doing something can't be at that grandiose, because then it removes impact from it. Right? Yeah. So for me, it was like, I'm here for impact. I'm here for transformation. So I became a business coach, right. And sort of for anyone that is looking at what it means to be successful, you have to define what success is to you. And I believe a fear of success won't really exist as much when you define what success looks like for you. Because you will wholeheartedly go towards the thing that you can say, Ah yes, that's what I want.

Kathryn Thompson  14:38

Yeah, and it's so true because then oftentimes when I'm working with my clients, it's that like, they've got this big vision that's what plays out I want to help as many people as possible I'm helping all these heart centered people, right? That's why I help and so they want to, that's their vision, I want to help as many people as possible, and then it's like, Okay, that's great, but like even sometimes the goal can be accomplishing Maybe it's a launch, or maybe it's putting your program out or maybe announcing your one to one. And that's the big goal. And like you said, There's something so beautiful about if I impact one person, because it often starts with that. And I think that we don't I think even the people that have gone viral and that are, you know, tops out booksellers, right? It's like, they started with selling just one book, they started with writing the book, and then just selling one book, and then eventually, you know, and if it gets there, great, but if I'm helping 110 1520, you know, I've done, I've been successful. And I think that, again, it's that redefining what success really looks like, right? And not looking outside of ourselves at the flashy numbers that are often sold to us. And the benefit of the viral and the benefit of selling millions, or whatever it is, like, you know, it's not all that it's necessarily cracked up to be. But it's like, what do you what are you even going to do with the viral views? And what are you going to do with the multi-millions in your bank account is often ask people's like, if that's the thing you actually want? Is that the thing you want? Or just want to help people right with the world and do meaningful work?

Hope Howland  16:07

Totally, totally. And it's impactful to the person who's, who's in your circle of influence? Totally No, like it? I think so many of us, especially because this is culture that we feed in Instagram culture, social media, culture, culture, virality, you know, like, we, we use this, like standard of, Oh, I've sold so many, or I've, I've impacted so many, or I always sell out my launches, or real, whatever. And awesome. Congrats, I'm super proud of you for that, however, I want to know about Susan, who signed up for your course, I want to know about her and how she's able to change her business and change her life. Because she signed up for and now her life is I don't care about numbers. I want to know about people. And yeah, for Susan, who is this fake person I just invented, you know, you know, it's like, it's if she's the only one that ever signed up for your course that ever bought your coaching program? Are you a success? Or are you a failure? Because you only sold one, your complete success? Because it's totally transformational for her. Yeah, what you do matters for her. And that I believe, is the shift that I personally want to see in every business owner, is this definition of like, success is what happens on me inside me first. And then I can teach that and impart that to others. And then when their lives are transformed, what's the ripple effect?

Kathryn Thompson  17:45

Like, right,

Hope Howland  17:46

come on, I'm all for that. I hear that all day long.

Kathryn Thompson  17:49

And that's like, where the impact becomes millions and multi-millions, with people, even just money and bank accounts. It's like, it's like exactly that you hope that one person totally transform their life. And now, everybody around them is better for it in a lot of ways. And I love the personalization and the human, like how to make things, humanize it, right? Like yes, size, the business and the brand and telling stories about real people. Yes. And where they were before they started working with you and where they're going. Right. And that's that whole drive for impact. Do you think that people don't know what their definition of success is? Or do you think that they latch on to something that's scripted outside like, the big numbers on social media are the flashy numbers like do you think they're like, Man, I want that million dollar business, because I saw Julie got that million dollar business. And that seems like she has everything I want?

Hope Howland  18:46

I think the answer is yes. I think it happens simultaneously the yes to both questions. Yeah. So I think that it starts with I don't know what my own definition of success is. And then they're observing and searching for something. And I mean, this in the most generalization, obviously, there's exceptions. But what they're searching and what do we see around us, but it's done by, you know, commonplace practice in the coaching industry or in an entrepreneur industry, right? Is this like, well, you know, I'm, you know, these screenshots of sales or, or this, this definition of what they would like, because it's going to leave some sort of pressure they're feeling Yeah. And then that becomes the goal, because what we create, if we can't identify what it is we want ourselves, we will create a place for that, you know, so I think then there's this that's where Halsall culture comes in is when we see something we're like, well, that's the definition of success. And if I don't have that, what does that say about me? Yeah. Okay. verify, you know? And then well, I got to just work harder to get that done. Yeah. And then everybody else is crushing it because everybody's only sharing their wins they're not.

Kathryn Thompson  20:14

We're the head banging moment and their hair ripping moments and the frustration.

Hope Howland  20:19

Exactly. So it's, it does create this, this, this negative cycle sometimes if you're not careful to define what that looks like for you, and for me, it was I, what does freedom look like, to me? What is what is happiness? What does peace look like, to me? What, like fulfillment that I need to have, and it's important to be fulfilled in your career. And the difference between identity and fulfillment is just knowing yourself a little bit more. And that's a process and, and it's not, it's not a one and done situation, you know, so,

Kathryn Thompson  20:53

yeah. And it's so true. Because I know, when I entered in the online space, I entered in, you know, with my brick and mortar, and then I was two years sort of in this space, and I share the story to a lot. It's like you know, it's almost like I had amnesia, it was like, I lost who I was in the process, because I came in, and it was like, Well, I'm new in the online space, I've got a listen and follow what everybody else is doing. And at the end of the day, my definition of success is one to be fulfilled in what I'm doing, but also to do in the most like, simplified, and streamlined way that I'm not over complicating, okay, I always say it's like, it's not about the money, it's about getting paid well for what I do and do the meaningful work. And so, but I think it's easy to get wrapped up in, you know, chasing, or, yeah, of those big numbers, because that's what's being shared, right? The screenshots of money, and you can have it too, and it's like, it becomes it can become addicting, right?

Hope Howland  21:51

It totally can become addicting. And, and that's where, you know, burnout comes in, that's where, you know, people just abandoning what they're really good at, or abandoning their passion, because because of a comparison of what you know, somebody that you're observing you following online is doing and that you're comparing your process with her achievements. And the problem is with that is there's absolutely nothing wrong with selling out your program, my gosh, sell your program out. Do it, you know, like, there's absolutely nothing wrong with making tons and tons of money you're supposed to be well provided for right? But if you think that that is all you are, you will eliminate your genius, you will live eliminate your magic, and the beauty of who you are created to be. And I don't know about you, but I want more people living the way they're always meant to be in work, because that's what we need, you know,

Kathryn Thompson  22:50

yeah. fully expressed for Tony. And do it in a way that they get compensated well for it. Right. Yeah. Sacrifice how you are. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think we can swing back. And I'm glad that you preface that because I think I think when the flip side of the message comes out is like, why do you share your screenshots or you don't need to do that, then people go, Oh, God, I'm doing something wrong, or that makes me a bad person. It's like, no, making money is great. And if you're a business owner, you have to make money.

Hope Howland  23:22

This girl needs to get paid. Yeah.

Kathryn Thompson  23:26

It's not if you're doing it to just have the money in the bank account if you're doing it because you think that money is going to give you something happiness, fulfillment, joy, peace, whatever. That's not what's gonna happen.

Hope Howland  23:39

No, no, and you make yourself more fragile. In the process, not even in like your business is gonna fall apart is that what you believe about yourself? Becomes fragile? Yeah, because I'm sorry. Like, I know, we were recording a podcast here, but I'm gonna do the wavy sign. Like, up and down, up and down. This is normal, like, business ownership, you're gonna have highs and you're gonna have lows and your income. It's gonna fluctuate, totally normal. That's why Black Friday and Boxing Day exist, right? So if major companies all over the world fluctuate in their sales, small companies, small businesses are going to fluctuate. But the problem is, we can't assign our identity and our worth to that high, crashing, crushing it screenshotting it all day long, and the lows where you're like, I just, I just drew my checking account to $2. You know, like, yeah, those are real, and yet, you need to believe that you are amazing, regardless, those days. And that's why I wrote the book. And that's my message.

Kathryn Thompson  24:51

Yeah, and I love that you talk to about the fluctuations, because I think again, it's like, you know, the message that's often sold was like, you can earn, you know, 90k consistent months, and it's like every business on the planet. joints and sales name fluctuate and sales and consistency. What is consistency? To me consistency is, and I don't know if you agree with this, but like, I think you kind of just referenced it and what your mission is like, consistency is loving who you are, regardless of the ups and downs. That's the consistency. And that's what we need to master is not Oh my God, I feel like I'm on top of the world on the best ever. Whoo. When I'm high, but then oh my gosh, I'm you know, I suck. I'm not good enough. What's going on with what am I doing wrong at the lows? You know? Yeah,

Hope Howland  25:40

whatever is that agree? I think that, you know, the more that business owners are honest, and not afraid of being honest, to just be like, Hey, by the way, like, this is how this what's going on? Because you're not apologizing for some sort of standard that's set up by an algorithm? Like, yeah, yeah, no. So like, we can't put our worth and our identity into a high that we're receiving in business or a law that we're receiving in business, you need to know exactly what you're saying consistency of loving yourself. And then it when there's iterations that need to be made, when there's pivots that need to be done, it's done from a place of peace, it's done from a place of competence, and not of a place of, well, that was a complete failure. Will I totally sakharine. That was a total waste of time and burning that down. Time, that never happened.

Kathryn Thompson  26:40

Totally, totally. And it's not reactive energy, right? Where a lot of business owners make that decision to burn stuff down or quit or virtual walk away. And which really holds them back from facts, right. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I also think, too, there's big gaps that happen that we don't talk about the gap in the middle, right? We've got these highs of selling out programs, but it's like, what does it actually take to get there? Or all the in betweens, right? Because there is the fluctuations you might sell on a program and then two months later, not, right? Totally. Like what happens in the in between, right? How are you showing up in the in between moments? When, yeah, maybe things aren't going your way? Or maybe you think things are going your way. But I think it's it's those nuanced stories, I would love to see more in the online space of like, same. You know, this is how it really is like a full picture, not just a point A and point B, this is how I started and this is where I went. But it's like all the in between.

Hope Howland  27:51

I agree. I agree wholeheartedly, because I think that the more we like you said, humanize business owners, and normalize the process of business, and learning. And here's the thing, your business is supposed to grow like you grow. So none of us want to stay the same. We want to grow in our insight and our respect and our kindness and our perspective and our wisdom, right. And to look at our business and to think, well, that worked last year, how come it didn't work this year? What am I doing wrong? You know, it's, it can easily just be attributed to Who are you the same person that you were last year? You're probably not. And I say what if you're a you're a healthy individual, that desires to have good things in their life and is going towards growth, you're growing? You know, so why wouldn't your business be meeting something different to and that is okay. And then I think to tell those stories more, is going to help other business owners feel like hey, hey, girlfriend, nothing wrong with you, you

Kathryn Thompson  29:00

know, you're totally normal. Yeah, and it's so true. Because I think too, right is like, I mean, there's so many contributing factors that can impact why something worked last year and didn't work this year. One within right, I hear this so much for my clients are like, that program that I launched, like, I loved it, it sold out a couple times, or, you know, I sold the spots in it or whatever. But they're like, I don't really want to relaunch it. And I was like, you don't have to, and why don't you want to relaunch it. They're like, because I'm a different person, you know, and I've evolved, or, as the market becomes more savvy, which I often say as well as tactics that worked yet last year or the year before no longer work, right. And we're starting to see a big shift in the online space specifically, but you see this in every market, you know, markets that have to evolve and be nimble and change themselves as well as with the industry and everything around it. So So yeah, it's being able to ride the wave and love yourself through. Oh, yeah. Yeah,

Hope Howland  30:06

totally. I just love that you mentioned that and it is when we, like, just give ourselves permission to innovate whenever we see fit. Whenever we feel the nudge whenever we want to, it doesn't mean there's something wrong. That means you're on the edge of change. Yeah, some of the best things happen to our world is an innovation that was needed. Yeah. And I think that just means looking at your life and looking at your business through the lens of hope. Nothing screwed up. We can innovate. Yeah, we can change, we can figure this out. And personally, for me, that's definitely and I like to live in.

Kathryn Thompson  30:45

Yeah. Meet you. Well, you know, I'm a pivoter. Right. So I've always like, what can I change? Everyone's just like, can you stand still for a little bit? I can, but I'm also a natural pivoter. And I'm constantly evolving and changing and offering stuff. And it just is Why do you know, human design at all?

Hope Howland  31:07

I don't. I haven't heard about it. I don't know human design? No.

Kathryn Thompson  31:11

Okay, so I'm a manifesting generator. So it's just normal for us to be people we often the conditioning is, we look scattered to the outside world, right? And people are like, you're scattered? Can't you commit blah, blah, blah. And we're actually here to show the world how to pivot how to change how to follow. Ah, so I'm curious to know, if you also are a man, I would not be surprised.

Hope Howland  31:33

I would that sounds very much like me. Um, I was thinking that we should have a club and create T-shirts of pillars, because you know, like, it's just, it just what is what I used to feel very guilty about. I used to have this like, like, oh, gosh, what are people? She's changing again? Yeah, totally. Now I own it like, unapologetically. Because I'm you know why best things have happened when something didn't work, and I needed to change something. And now I sit in this place of peace. And I pause, where I'm like, Okay, that didn't work. Why didn't work? Well, there's a reason why I don't know. timing wasn't meant to be whatever, you know what I mean? But is it? Is there alignment? That's off? Oh, my gosh, there is alignment that's off. That's okay. You know, I'm really, really self aware. And I think it's important for business owners to be allowed themselves to be self aware, because I am a business coach. So obviously, I'm an avid advocate for hiring a business coach, fill the gap, the what you need, but never in replacement for who you are. Totally never, ever, ever. She's never going to replace the brilliant brain that's been put on your shoulders. So you know, the path. And yes, there. I mean, like, I love sports. So like, like, there's coaches for a reason, because brilliant players need to have coaches, but at the same time, it doesn't take away from the magic that of who they are. And if you need to iterate, if you need to change and you need to pivot. Just do it. Don't apologize, just do and figure it out. Because you're gonna find out oh, that was the best happy accident ever, or, or whatever. So yeah, 100% pivots are like, best friend. And even

Kathryn Thompson  33:22

and even if your business is working really well, like you can walk away, I mean, we, we sold our brick and mortar, the height of COVID, right. And it's not that it just wasn't in alignment with me. And I was the one operating the business. And so it was like, it was a hard decision to make. But I also know just based on my own design, that the longer I hold on to things that even though they're working, but they've run their course in my life, the longer I hold on to them, the worse it's gonna get for me, I'm just gonna burn out, right. And so sometimes things can be working really, really well. But you get that inner nudge to pursue something else or to go in a different direction. And it's like, yeah, you might have to give up or let go of the things that are equally working well, but just aren't in alignment with you anymore. So

Hope Howland  34:08

yeah, yeah, alignment is a really key factor and knowing yourself, and trusting yourself to go through that process, no matter how it looks. So if it does look scattered on the outside, doesn't mean that you have to believe you are scattered. Totally. You know, that's up to you. Yeah.

Kathryn Thompson  34:26

And yeah, you get to decide what you believe about yourself Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Well, we've talked about so much. It's been so fun. Is there anything else you'd love to share with our listeners that we didn't have a chance to cover before we wrap up?

Hope Howland  34:39

Oh, this been so lovely. Just loving yourself and give yourself permission to do what is on your heart. And if you're feeling the nudge, to pivot something to change something, reach out for help. Reach out ask a friend ask Katherine asked myself, whatever feels in alignment with you? But just know that you have no idea how great your life can be. Like, what you think has been great up until this point, I can still get better. That doesn't mean that anything's failing or wrong. All it means is that some of the best things that have happened in your life still haven't even happened yet. So be brave and pursue the thing that's on your heart.

Kathryn Thompson  35:23

So beautiful and where can people want to get your book but also connect with you if they want to reach out and connect and chat? Yeah,

Hope Howland  35:30

reaching out to me. The best way is through Instagram at Hope Celeste Howland. And do get my book you can get it on Amazon is available worldwide. That speaks English, I believe so. Yeah.

Kathryn Thompson  35:43

Amazing. And we will Yeah, link all of those links up around the show notes so you guys can get those easily. But yeah, it's been such a pleasure connecting with you. I'm so glad we had the chance to connect like this off of Instagram and have a podcast.

Hope Howland  35:55

I love it. Thank you so much for having me, Kathryn. You're so welcome.