How to Truly Embrace the Essence of Luxurious Simplicity with Suzi Gray

Hey hey, Kathryn here! I’m so glad you’re tuning in. If you’re new to the show, welcome. I’m so glad you’re here. If you’ve been around for a bit, you know I’m all about keeping it real with you. Showing you all the sides of entrepreneurship (& life). I mean it’s all connected, right? 

Suzi Gray is a business mentor who likes her humour served dry. She works with quietly-ambitious online entrepreneurs who want to position themselves as pioneers and radically redefine success for their life + business inside The Success Sanctuary. She’s also a new mum, a former lawyer, and considers simplicity her love language.

So without further ado let’s welcome Suzi to the show!

Kathryn Thompson  00:02
Hey, hey, I am super stoked to have Suzi on the show today. And we're gonna be diving into the definition of success and what that really looks like. And I'm just, I know a lot of the content that Suzi's been putting out lately is super aligned with where I'm wanting to go in business and all of that. So, no further ado, I'm just going to turn it right over to Suzi, for you to introduce to our listeners, who you are, what you do, and who you serve.

Suzi Gray  00:27
Hello, well, thank you so much for having me. I did mention just before we actually jumped on that this is the first podcast interview I've done in so long because I had a baby six months ago. So I'm so excited to be here and hanging out with your listeners. So I am Susie Gray, the founder of the captivating house, and I have a business mentor. And I these days work with established but quietly ambitious, online entrepreneurs who want to position themselves as pioneers, and radically redefine success for their life and business. That's me in a nutshell,

Kathryn Thompson  01:06
in a nutshell, I love it. And yes, you recently had a baby. So you're busy, busy mama now and juggling? Yes, and business and all of that, how are you doing that?

Suzi Gray  01:18
Yeah, I have no idea. It's, it's really been, obviously, it's all new to me, I'm a first-time mom. So it's very new to me. And it feels like you know, I've birth not just a baby, but a new identity. And I'm having to navigate that and wanting to be you know, as present as I can, with my little man. And, you know, wanting to get back into the identity of being a business owner. And I feel like I've been out of the game as it were for a little while. Not completely, because I don't think you can ever do that, really, as a business owner. But now I'm at the point where he's a bit older, and I'm wanting to do more in the business, but conscious that I cannot do what I did before. And I was always someone who loved to have spaciousness in my life anyway. But you're so you know, time-limited. And there's so much going on in your brain with a baby. So I'm, I'm still figuring out what it looks like for me to be able to be both and also just to be me, you know, because that's, that's an identity in and of itself. So it's a work in progress, for sure. But I'm, I'm loving it. And I'm loving all of the new learnings that are coming out of this, I guess, new chapter for me. Yeah, it's magical and challenging all at once.

Kathryn Thompson  02:41
Yeah, so amazing. And so you talk about the identity shift, right? Like there, you know, being a mom and being a first-time mom, and how there are priorities shifted, right? You're having to care for your little one. And you're wanting to be there for all of those moments. Did that kind of spark this sort of, like redefinition of success? Or have you always sort of been on this path of wanting to redefine it?

Suzi Gray  03:07
That's really interesting. You ask that because I feel like I've always been on the path of, of redefining it. I feel like there wasn't all that much that I needed to change, when, you know, we knew we were expecting because I kind of set my business up the whole time to really allow for this to happen in my life. I guess you could say, I'm from the corporate world and originally used to be a lawyer, it feels like an entire lifetime ago. But when I think about what success really meant back then before I even knew about the online world, I was very much on the traditional path, you know, get good grades, like go to uni, get a good degree, get a good job, and then just work your way up and all that and when I realized that, actually, that did not make me happy or did not fulfill me in the way I guess I wanted a career to that's really when I I started exploring other parts and figuring out what success could look like. Instead, and that really was you know, the introduction into this online world, but then being here. I love it. I absolutely love it. But success seems to be synonymous with, you know, hitting these big goals and it's all about like, who can do the most who can make the most who can get the most, and that really doesn't really speak to me. It's never been a desire of mine, I guess to you, yeah, be the one who, who, who has it all. And so I've been on a journey of redefine wanting what success looks like within the online world? And I think the majority of the messages that we see are ones that talk about, you know, success being defined in that way. And there are a lot of people who, who actually don't desire those kinds of things. And do you see success differently and they are out there, we just don't see the messages from them so much. And I guess that's what I really would love to bring, bring more attention to.

Kathryn Thompson  05:30
Yeah, I love that. I just posted something yesterday about the whole screenshotting like your money balance your, you know, your bank balance, and sharing that as like a way of establishing credibility and how viscerally cringing it was for me in my body when I saw that tactic in the online space. Because I came from, you know, a 15-year marketing, corporate career ditch that opened a wine business, producing sold wine out of the online space. And then when I came into this online world, I was like, what's going on in here, because it was also counterintuitive to like, what I viewed success as, and same thing, I never really desired to have it all and to have the money. And that's not the sole desire for me. And I know, there's a lot of people out here and listening to this podcast, that crave sort of the same thing. They're not desiring these big metrics. And I read one of your posts this morning before this, about the money thing, and I loved it, right. So I would love to dive into that a little bit. Because like you said, we see a lot of these messages that are like, you've got to hit this school, and you've got to have this metric. And you're on this path. And I know I'm equally on this path of like redefining what success looks like for people. What are some of the things that you're doing with your clients and in your business to really get that message out? That there is a different way?

Suzi Gray  06:55
Hmm, yeah. Honestly, I think it's just about having deeper conversations, when we read so much stuff online, especially when it's the repetitive messages. And so if you see people posting their, what they're making online, and you see another person doing it, and another person doing it, and it's almost like them becomes a competition between them of like, Who's, who's making the most, and then you start to internalize that and think well, is that what I should be doing like is that what we need to do now is to publicize how much we're making in order to get clients. And I just think, if someone chooses to hire me, based on the amount of money I make, that doesn't sit right with me, that should have nothing to do with their decision to work with me. And I love that people, especially women are becoming more open about talking about money, I do think it's really important for us to be having those conversations. But that doesn't mean that I have to be comfortable with posting my monthly revenue or profit online as a marketing strategy. Just because some people do it, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, doesn't mean that I have done it. It's the same for anyone. And it doesn't mean that it's the only way to get the kind of clients you want. Like, absolutely not. So I think it was what, what kinds of things am I doing with my clients? And I mentioned having the deeper, the deeper conversations. I think we're craving connection, especially with everything that's been going on in the world the past few years. And it's coming back to relationships, and getting to know people at a level that you can't necessarily see online, we know that you get to choose what you post online, and it's often a highlight reel. And actually just being human with people with voice messages, or just jumping on Zoom or podcast, interviews, whatever it might be. And I'm here to just be the real me. I know we're not on video, but like my hairs are in a messy kind of band. I'm in dungarees. Like I've been looking after a baby all day. But I still want to be able to show up and show people that you can you can be all the things you don't have to be polished, you don't have to be perfect. Like I feel like I can run a really great business exactly as I am. And that can be quite permission-giving to people who feel the weight of expectation on them to do things a certain way. And I'm just saying it's really liberating to just allow yourself to come with all of those identities like I mentioned these identities and the shift in those earlier and I can bring all of those to the table and trust that the right people are going to love that. And it's not going to be right for other people. And that's absolutely okay, too. So, yeah, something else I've literally done this week, because I'm at the point where, you know, I'm coming out of the maternity leave cave, and starting to like, you know, put offers out there again, and I've created a new thing. I keep saying I birth two things over maternity leave, like baby and new offer. Yeah. And I sat down to write a sales page, because like, of course, you know, you write a sales page, right? That's the dandy especially like you and me, we have a writing background. Like when I first started my online business, I was a copywriter. I was like, God, I don't want to write the sales page, especially when you're writing it for yourself. It's like some special kind of torture sometimes. Yeah. You, I know, you feel me. And I was like, I don't want to write sales pages, I just want to write a love letter. I just want to like heart to heart with the people who I know would be perfect for this. And send them personal invitations. And so that's what I've done. And it's gone down so well. And it just it feels good. And I am really here for following what feels good. As opposed to what you think you should be doing based on what you know, the online world is, is telling you. Yeah, and

Kathryn Thompson  11:37
it's so beautiful. Because yes, I mean, the sales page thing is so interesting, because I write sales pages for clients. And I often will ask, I'll say like, are we doing this because you feel like you should be doing it more, and you need it to sell because honestly, I'm trying to think of like the most aligned clients I've ever attracted, have never gone to a sales page. And for the first two years of my business, I didn't even have sales pages. I was like, I'm not selling for the sales page. Because it is it's this long-winded and I love the strategy of just writing a love letter and personally inviting people and connecting with them. Because I do really believe that people are craving real connection, real relationships and real conversations. And just yeah, that imperfect or unfiltered person that you are like showing up exactly that with a messy topic or, you know, in whatever you're wearing kind of thing and it being okay, and that the right people will be okay with it. And those that aren't. That's cool, too. Do you find that I do want to talk about the money thing a little bit about and I love. Yeah, I loved what you said about, you know, having women talk about money more and how empowering that is. And so that, just for everyone listening, it's when we talk about when I even post about money and that sort of thing, and what I value and what I believe in, it doesn't mean that having conversations about money is wrong. Right? It's very empowering to have the conversations where I think we're both coming from is like using it or leveraging it to sell. Yeah, it is very different, right as being able to have an open conversation and celebrate women for going out and making money and all of that, but to use it as a tool to sell. It's not needed if you don't align with that. Yeah, yeah.

Suzi Gray  13:37
100% Yes. Thank you for clarifying that, because I'm totally on the same page as you. And one of the reasons I wanted to write the post that you read was because I was working with clients who, you know, are fantastic at what they do. And they were seeing these messages. And they because of them even though these are important conversations to be had they were feeling less than as a result. And like that, I hate that I hate to see this like incredible person sitting across from me feeling less than because, you know, I'm not making as much as so and so and whatever you make that mean about yourself like that's the opposite of empowerment, you know, if we want to be using having these conversations to empower or to help people empower themselves, actually, sometimes it can do the complete opposite. And I wanted to bring some attention to that because when you like you say a leveraging it just to sell something. I mean that's gross. That's not making anyone feel good except the person who's, who's selling it. So, yes, we are inundated with these messages. But I would always encourage people to dig deeper, because yes, it's sexy to sell like that. But there's so much more beneath the surface that you probably aren't seeing. And it goes, it goes further than that with even if it's not you posting about your own financial results, but those of your clients, very often, it's a really small percentage, that are getting this kind of like mind blowing results. Yes, there are exceptions. But again, if you buy something, based on so and so got these incredible results, so I will too, and then you don't, it's you make it mean something about you. And the vast majority of the time, it's not that at all, it's that it could well, it could be all sorts of things. But that can actually hold you hold you back and slow you down so much because of the original message being about Yeah, money.

Kathryn Thompson  16:15
Yeah. And it's so interesting, because, you know, I've had women move through my program, and it's, uh, you know, I feel like the personal transformation, the massive leaps and bounds that they've had on a personal self-trust level, being able to trust themselves to make aligned decisions for their business and not follow the cookie-cutter, one size fits all strategies. And I'm like, I praise that I love that I have shared money results, and different things like that, because of the same thing where I felt like I needed to do it. Because this is what we do in the online space, even though it always sort of felt off for me. And now I sort of veered away from that. And I do love when, like I said, Women make these deep transformational changes where they're able to sit across from you and go, I don't need to do that, or I'm no longer comparing myself, or, you know, putting myself down for not reaching these metrics, or making myself any less of a coach. One of the big themes I keep seeing across the board right now is and I recently just posted about this was not feeling authentic, or credible, or legit, because they're not getting the same results as their clients or better results, right. And that holding them back from even offering things like, Well, I'm not attracting this, you know, massive amounts of clients in my business. So how can I help someone else do it? And I feel like that goes back to the results thing a bit, right? It's like we're using our results and these metrics to make ourselves feel credible. And if we're not making having these metrics, then we're not able to help coach their people, which I think is also kind of bogus. What are your thoughts around that piece?

Suzi Gray  18:03
Yeah, I completely agree. And I think it also links to a conversation about time, because it's not just about you know, what, what amazing results can you create, but it's like, how fast can you create them? And I think it's it all goes together? Because then it's it's not just oh, I haven't I haven't done this, or I haven't achieved this. It's like, I haven't done it fast enough. Like, clearly, I'm doing something wrong, because these results aren't happening, like overnight, or I'm not getting this immediate success. And I think like that is equally as damaging, but it can be it can really affect people's progress. Because it's, it's the act of like thinking they're doing something wrong, because they're not getting these really fast results that's actually then slowing their journey down. You're not doing anything wrong. I mean, maybe you are, but you're probably not. It's just about committing to something and the stuff that we see online. Like it's we know that overnight success doesn't exist. Like there's always so much that we don't see and people quit on stuff too soon, as a result of these messages. You know, you can't just post make a post one time and expect all the clients to come. Like it takes time. It takes work. And so the message is around like yeah, creating these wild numbers and doing it in these, you know, really short timelines, I think is unrealistic and I do think is dangerous. Because so many people make it mean something that it doesn't. And it's

Kathryn Thompson  19:55
sort of context right because I mean, the person that got let's just say They, you know, I don't know if they increased their revenue by 10%, or 20%, or 50%, or whatever number you want to attach to it. And it's like, what, what, where did they even start? Where was their starting point, right, they could have had five years of putting out content and showing up and selling to clients compared to somebody else that might just be one or two years in, right? We just never know the context. And as someone who owned a brick and mortar and an online business now and worked in corporate, and like, you have the experience, as well as like, you know, making money and selling and sales is all fine and dandy, but the back end of it, I mean, if if you're not making a profit, or your expenses are like, to the roof, right, you could be selling a ton, but you're equally paying out the same amount or more, and you're actually your businesses and even making money. And so I just feel like a lot of it's out of context. And that's why I feel like it can be very dangerous for people to see those messages. Yeah. And, and at the end of the day, yes, you're putting the message out, but the person receiving it, like if you're truly wanting to do it, it with ethical in an ethical way, you've got to think about that other person on the other end that's receiving that message and how they're going to receive it. Because at the end of the day, ultimately, they could be your client. And if they come in with this expectation that they can post once and get this massive success, you're gonna have a hard time in a session with them, because that's going to be a belief that they're coming into the container or experience with you with so

Suzi Gray  21:34
yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I feel like the goal posts keep changing as well. Like when I think of, because I'm eight years, gosh, that's crazy, eight years plus into this business now. And when I think to the sort of the big celebrity kind of entrepreneurs that were around back when I started who are still around now and seeing how their own messaging has changed over time, and exactly what you're saying like they are, so they are in a completely different place from so many of the people who read their stuff and sign up to their stuff. And the goalposts keep changing for the people who are further ahead. So when I started out, it was like, you know, you can have like a 10k month, like that was that was the message that, you know, I was bombarded with, then it was like, you know, have your, or it was like 10k month or 100k? Yeah, make six figures, then over time, it's shifted. So it's it like seven figures, you know, now, if you're serious about this, like you want to make seven figures. And then, like there was even stuff I was seeing about it became eight figures, yes, like making eight figures a year. And I was just like, that is just so out of touch for most people. And like if you if this isn't like, you know, don't dream big, like sure if that is what you genuinely desire, awesome, go for it. But if that's what you're seeing as like, setting the standard, then you are just going to be behind, or you're gonna feel behind your entire life. Like, I can't imagine chasing that kind of goal, especially if you don't genuinely desire it, which is another conversation. Like, you're just going to be miserable. Yeah. And that's really not what I'm in business for. And what I hope most people aren't in business for why do we want to feel miserable?

Kathryn Thompson  23:40
Totally, totally. And that's so. So thinking of that of like, feeling miserable. And I 100% agree. And I've seen that trajectory of messaging. I've been in the online space now for four years. Two of those years, I was also running and operating my brick-and-mortar. But I started to sort of like listen to like hear the messages prior to ever coming into this space. And yeah, that I see a lot of like seven-figure eight-figure messages now. And you're absolutely right. I mean, it is out of touch. And if you are a six-figure business owner, to even think about getting that eight fares, and one of you know, I have voice notes written all on my phone and one of the questions was like, What are you going to do with the eight-figure money? Like, what's what are you doing with it? Right? Like, what are you actually doing with it? Because that excess of money, we all know isn't going to make you happy. But it doesn't make you happy. So why are you striving for in the first place, which I think is the whole essence of redefining what success looks like for you like what does success actually look like? And that does it is it the eight fingers if it is great run for it, right? Go for it. But for a lot of people that I know and probably likely you know is like spaciousness is a big one to have that space. to live their life outside of business to be able to have a family to be able to have time to spend with family. So what does success look like for you?

Suzi Gray  25:08
Yeah, I love this question. And I feel like success generally is defined as a result, like success is a thing that you get or that you achieve. And I really like to think of success as a journey. Like it's not the destination success is the journey, like how Who are you on that journey? Like, what are you saying on that journey? How are you feeling? Or what are you doing? I want that whole journey to feel good. I don't want it to be like a, everything feels hard until I get to this result. Oh, now I have success. But hey, this doesn't feel like I thought it would feel that was very much my experience. When I became qualified as a lawyer. I've worked so hard to get to this point. And then it was an immense anticlimax. And I think it's tied in with you know, people, not, not really. How do I say this? We see a lot of people like they want more, you know, I want more. And that's great. Like, want more? But not if you don't currently, like appreciate enough? Yeah. Because once you get more if, if what you have right now, which is probably so much more than you had a while ago, and what you wished for, if you don't feel like it's enough, and you don't have that appreciation and that gratitude for the right now. It doesn't matter what you get, ultimately, you'll never really feel that true. contentment. Yeah. And I think that's, that's missing for, for a lot of people that their eyes are so much on what they don't have, that they actually miss the beauty and the joy and what they already do. And I for some, I feel like a bit of an anomaly, I guess. But as someone who feels like I can love my life as it is, it's, it's simple. What I mean, is it's not as simple as it was before I had a baby. But I had the spaciousness before he was in my life. Like, I love simplicity. I think I've put it in my bio, like, I feel simplicity is my love language. Like I'm always looking to make things easier, simpler, and more convenient for myself and just enjoy what I have. Yes, we can, we can desire more, we can work for more, of course, like we are ambitious. But that doesn't mean our ambitions have to be so wild that we don't actually yet appreciate the masterpiece that we've already created for ourselves.

Kathryn Thompson  27:57
Yeah, that's seeking and striving from that place of sort of lack of not enough nests, right? Like I don't have enough right now. I need more because I feel like that next goalpost that mountain top is going to be the thing that gives me the joy, the contentment, the peace, the fulfillment. And I love the whole thing about simplicity as your love language. Because I'm constant I think I get annoy my family and friends and clients and everything. So I'm always like, Can we do this in an easier way? Can we just like take out the 100 steps that you've and I know in the online space again, it's one of the things I experienced coming into it was like this over complication like you know, the really long funnels and all of the emails and all the things felt very sort of overcomplicated. For me. I was like how can we make this simpler? So I love that. Yeah, your love language is simple and you've had that before you had your son because then it Yeah, prepared you basically for it. And for me that success is like a feeling you know is that is a feeling like not the achievement of the goalpost or the accolade or whatever it is that you're seeking. When did you know, like, had you become a lawyer and you were practicing law like was it then or was it like right after university or like when did you actually get that sort of nudge? like hmm, I feel like I'm meant for something different.

Suzi Gray  29:28
It was when I'd gone through this, you know, years of studying and taking exams and going through a two year training contract. That's what we have to do here in the UK, qualifying. You know, make it like getting to not the pinnacle, but it's like that's really what you're working for is to get qualified once you're qualified then it is easier from there, I suppose. Yeah. And I was about a year, a year into being qualified. And I was like are starting to get that nudge that maybe this isn't what is meant for you. And I felt like I was young enough at that point and had, you know, few responsibilities really, that I could explore making a change. And if things didn't work, then I could kind of fall back on that qualification that I had. So I, I listened to that, that voice like I call it the wisdom within I don't feel I was that all that wise at that age. But there was obviously something in there that I that was like, you know, clawing to get out. And I listened and just follow the curiosity that I had for what else could be there. And I, you know, made a couple of, I wouldn't call them mistakes, because they led me to, to the ultimately the right path, but they were definitely the wrong things. For me. I went into recruitment, initially, and that was just so not that it's so not my kind of job. Yeah. But it helped me see, oh, I have the skill in writing. What if I use that in a different way. And that led me into an advertising agency, basically taught myself into a job that didn't exist, an ad agency in the city here. And that was my first introduction to the creative industries. And so I was using writing skills, just in a much more fun way. And that was, yeah, I guess, the proper start of this, this path of seeing, Oh, there's this whole new world available to me, then discovering the online world? I don't know if you know, of Asha mache.

Kathryn Thompson  31:58
The name of this finger project? No, no,

Suzi Gray  32:02
I have a feeling that you would really like,

Kathryn Thompson  32:04
Okay, I'm gonna check her out.

Suzi Gray  32:08
But I stumbled across her blog. She was a copywriter, but she has a really distinct, irreverent voice. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my goodness, I want to do this. Yeah. And she happened to have a course at that time, which is creating your own copywriting business online. It was just, you know, serendipity. So I did that. And yeah, set up on my own. And the rest is history.

Kathryn Thompson  32:39
Brilliant, brilliant. And this new offer that you have that you've just also birth to, what is it?

Suzi Gray  32:46
Oh, so it's called the success sanctuary. And it is a mentorship meets mastermind, is how I'm describing it. I want to bring the best of both of those things into this one container. And I want it to feel like the most. Okay, so we were talking about simplicity. Yeah, the vibe is luxurious, simple. That's how I want it to feel like it's, you know, we're doing business, and we're finding the path of least resistance. But we also want it to feel fantastic. Like, we want to create these beautiful, joyful lives for ourselves. In the process, a business can feel delicious. Yeah. And so yeah, it's, there are two pieces, I suppose to it. There's the Pioneer positioning, which is all of the business side of things, and me really bringing my strategic and creative hats to the table. And then there's the radically redefining success and like juicy conversations around that, because they both go hand in hand. And the framework that I'm using for it is the success trifecta. Yeah. And it's being saying doing so is self-leadership. That's really who you are, as you move through the world. Then saying is self-expression, what you say as you move through the world, and then doing is self-drive. So that's how you're actually moving through the world because I feel like all three pieces are essential to ultimately yeah, having that that success journey feel really good. And when it comes down to how do I define success, it's being who I want to be saying what I want to say, and doing what I want to do.

Kathryn Thompson  34:40
Love it. Love it and so simple, right? Like just so simple. And just Yeah, being really truly showing up as the person that you want, and doing it in the way that you want because the other doing it in ways that you don't want to do or fitting yourself into some pre-prescribed person. : marketing or sales or business just ends up creating a lot of resistance. It might work for the short term, but it'll end up creating a lot of resistance in the long term. And often isn't sustainable is what I found, I think with my clients is like, you do the thing because you think you have to, and then you've made the money. And you're successful because you're super ambitious and a go-getter. But you end up getting to that six-figure multiple six-figure and you're like, I don't really like this. Very good. Yeah.

Suzi Gray  35:31
And then you would have bet it all down. Yeah. So over, like, I don't want to have to burn things down every time. I think we get to evolve on our journey, so long as we are moving in alignment with what we really want and what we think we should want. Yeah.

Kathryn Thompson  35:53
So beautiful. It's been such a pleasure connecting with you. And I just absolutely love your story and what you're doing, where can people find you if they want to connect with you?

Suzi Gray  36:02
Thank you. I loved this conversation, too. You can find me over on Instagram. I'm at Susie, great underscore, because of course, there has to be an underscore. And I'm over on Facebook as well, Susie Gray, and you can find my website at captivation house.com. And at some point, the success sanctuary stuff will be available on there. But you know, just got to keep the tiny human alive first.

Kathryn Thompson  36:31
Yes, brilliant, brilliant. And we'll definitely link all those up in the show notes. Is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners before we wrap up?

Suzi Gray  36:41
Oh, just that you are doing better than you think you are right now. And the best thing you can bet on is yourself. Love it.

Kathryn Thompson  36:51
Love it. We're going to end with that because that is so powerful. Again, it's been such a pleasure having you on I cannot wait for this episode to draw.

Suzi Gray  36:59
Oh, thank you so much. Thank you