Feb. 15, 2022

The Truth Behind How You’re Selling

The Truth Behind How You’re Selling
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Do you ever question how marketing and sales make you feel? Like the promises being made aren’t something you can guarantee. 

In today’s episode, Kathryn is unpacking how most marketing & sales is done and why for the non-marketer it feels icky.

After 20 years working as a Marketing & Communications strategist, I finally realized why so many heart-centered business owners struggle with marketing and sales.

There is something about the way it’s taught and executed that doesn’t feel 100% authentic or truthful. 

So if you’re ready to stop chasing shiny objects, tune into today’s episode.


●  How selling business owners & entrepreneurs on making more money plays off their deep need for survival versus their soul-level desire.

●  Why marketing & sales don’t feel natural for most heart-centered entrepreneurs.

● The ways you can start bringing the heart and soul back into marketing and sales.

If this episode inspires you in some way,leave us a review onApple Podcasts and let us know your biggest takeaway– whether it’s created those aha moments or given you food for thought on how to achieve greater success. 

And while you’re here, make sure tofollow us on Instagram@creativelyowned for more daily inspiration on how to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients without having to spend hours marketing your business or chasing clients. Also, make sure to tag me in your stories @creativelyowned.

[FREE MASTERCLASS]:Learn how to stop sounding like everyone else and craft killer messaging that gets you known as a leading expert and calls in the *right* clients and opportunities effortlessly, watch the instant replay now!


To apply for Elevate, an experience for coaches & consultants wanting to craft & scale their offers that sell on autopilot using attraction marketing,click here!

To get your hands on how to write content that connects, and attracts the most aligned clients,grab it here!!



Hey, hey, Katherine here. I'm so glad you're tuning in. If you're new to the show, welcome, welcome, super stoked to have you here. I know we have a lot of new listeners tuning in because I can tell by the downloads, we've nearly doubled our downloads over the last month. So I'm just so grateful to have you guys here tuning in weekly, I wanted to welcome you and just that you're here to support the show, but obviously to my people that have been around for a bit now you guys are my people always excited to have you here. And always grateful for the opportunity to show you all sides of entrepreneurship and life. I mean, it's all connected, right. And if you are getting valuable information or insight or wisdom from this show, I would love to invite you to tag me on Instagram with you listening to the episode, maybe you're dancing in your kitchen because you've got a lot of insight or some aha moments tagged me in it. So that one, I know who you are. And I can connect with you over on Instagram as well. But also, so I know what you're finding most valuable and useful. So I can continue to keep sharing that type of content for you on the podcast. Really,


these podcast episodes are designed for me to connect with you, but to also share valuable content with you, this is about you, and being able to connect with you and give you some valuable perspectives, and honest truths about business and life. And all of that. It's why I created this podcast, so be sure to tag me over on Instagram, I'd love it. And I'll definitely share the love with my community as well. And this episode really is no exception about really digging down to the truth and sharing openly and transparently with you because there's been some things weighing heavy on my heart here. And I've been contemplating a lot of things when it comes to marketing and sales and how I can even be more transparent with you and pull back the veil so to speak even more so that you understand some of the tactics and the ways in which the marketing industry has been built. And you might be thinking right now, but Katherine, you are a marketer, and you are a salesperson. So why are you sharing this with me, and I'm gonna dive into that in this episode. But before I do, I want to share a really unique opportunity with you if you're feeling called to gain support in creating and crafting that killer message that is is on your heart. And that is on your soul. And you want to put that out into the world so that you can create that impact that you desire. But more importantly, share that message in a way that's really unique to you. And not sharing it in a way that you think that you should share it or think that it needs to be shared in that capacity. So if you are somebody who has this message has this impact and big vision that you want to create in the world, you desire to be of service to your clients and your customers, then this opportunity that you might speak to you, I am looking for three to five thought leaders, coaches or consultants that really want to elevate their business, they want to stand out online, but they want to stand out not for gratification or validation that their value or worth. But they want to stand out because they know that they have a message that is different. They know that they're different, they want to be able to show up as authentically as themselves and get paid for it. They don't want to conform to what they think they should be doing. They want to go against the grain and really challenge status quo, then this opportunity is likely going to speak to you. So I'm looking for three to five thought leaders are coaches who want to make this happen in the next 60 to 90 days. If that is something that's like, yeah, I want to learn more about it sounds like a really cool opportunity. I want to learn how to stand out and attract clients that are really aligned for my business so that I can be of the best service to them, then I would love for you to head on over to the show notes and book a call with me, I'd love to connect with you. It's a connection call more than anything, I just want to make sure that if this is something that you desire, I can share with you how I might be able to support you in that. And if I'm not the person that can support you, then I would love to redirect you to somebody else that might be of better support for you, depending on where you're at in your business and all of that. So if this sounds like yes, I really want to get that message out. I want to find the courage to really speak what's on my heart and I don't want to hold back anymore and I want to challenge that status quo because I want to make that impact. Click on that link in the show notes and let's have a conversation now onto this episode.

Now on to today's topic, one that's been, I would say, weighing a bit on my heart, and one where I feel like a lot of contemplation was needed sort of earlier this year, but it's a topic, I think that comes into my orbit or comes into my presence. Oftentimes, when I have interactions with people that I'm like, you know, I feel like there's a deeper meaning to life, or business or all of it. And about a month ago, I went to my mindset coach, and I said, you know, I'm really sort of struggling or torn with the way in which we market and sell in the online space where we're constantly bombarded with messages of how to make more money in our business. And that if we want to make more money, we need to make more money, in order to create the impact that we want, we need to make more money, in order to, you know, have the freedom, we need to make more money in order to do all the things that we want to do. And when we sell business owners on, or entrepreneurs on making more money, we're actually really playing into their deep need for survival versus their soul level desire. And I went to her because I said, I feel torn, you know, I feel like it's an easy sell to sell somebody on making more money, because that's the thing that they need, right? It's a basic necessity. It's what fuels basic necessity, it's what's needed to put food on our table or a roof over our head. And so when we talk about and sell to business owners and entrepreneurs about making more money, it's what I call an easy sell, because it's the thing they need the most, it's the thing that's going to keep their doors open, right? And so it hits them at that, you know, heart level of like, oh, yeah, I need this. But it's playing into that deep need for survival versus soul level. And so when we sell to people like that, we're selling to the fear, and we're playing off of their heartstrings. And we're playing off of that survival mechanism. And we're attracting people based on that. And why I felt so torn with it was because I as a business coach, and a marketing coach sales coach, I could see that right, I could see the type of clients that that attracts, it attracts people in a fear state attracts people that are just merely surviving or needing to survive in some capacity, and who are probably operating a lot from that primal brain and their nervous system is totally shot. But I also feel this great divide of like, wanting to help people see that there's more to life than just making more money in their business or attracting people that, you know, see that there's more to life. And I think what stemmed the conversation with my mindset coach was about two and a half or three months ago, I had a woman slip into my DMs. And we had met in a community. And this is by no means to, like, shame her or anything like that. But it really did spark something within me. And so I felt this need to share it on the podcast today.


But also, it's what got me really thinking about, you know, what drives people or motivates people, and how the conversation around how much money I made this month, and all of that stuff is like really, not the thing that drives me. And it's, for me feels very surface level, right? It's like this very surface level conversation. And anyways, this woman slipped into my DM she connected with me through another paid community that I was in, I had a coach two and a half, three years ago, and the community you get to stay in the community for a lifetime. And she was in that community and somehow connected with me on Facebook. And the first interaction that I had with her was, she reached out to me initially and it was the first conversation was all around. Hey, I'm so and so I, you know, I noticed you're in this community. I wanted to connect with you here because I see that you do X, Y and Z and I love connecting with other business owners and basically then disrupt you know, I just I'm super excited because I just made you know, 100k this month and you know, I just Yeah, I want to celebrate with everybody and all that sort of stuff. And it was kind of like you know, hit me in this part of my heart that was like you know, there's there's nothing that made me feel like I wanted to get to know this person on a deeper level. Because for me, my interest is not how much you make in your bank account. It actually doesn't indicate to me at all the type of person you are what you're about or anything like that. But I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt because you know, I wanted to not place judgment or anything and we got into this conversation. It was all very like, How much money are you making and what are your revenue goals and what are your things like that and I could feel my body sort of restrict and tense out because not because I'm ashamed of money that I'm making or any of that I'm a high achiever, I go after my goals, I have no problem talking about those things. But there's this part of me that feels like there's so much more depth to who people are, then how many clients they have, or how much money they have in their bank account, or how much money they made last month. And I think we overlook that, especially in the entrepreneurship and business space that you know, what motivates people to get up and out of bed every morning, likely isn't the money. And you telling me that you make X dollars and that you have this much money in your bank account, and you're able to, you know, buy a private yacht or fly a private jet? does nothing for me, it absolutely does nothing for me, I want to get to know people on, you know, the level, the depth of who they are, I want to get to know what makes them tick, I want to get to know like, what gets you up in the morning, I want to get to know like, Do you love to travel? Do you not love to travel? What are some of your favorite experiences? These are the things you're like, Who are you really because for me, like I said, the money in your bank account doesn't tell me one ounce of who you are, it tells me nothing about who you are. And that's the level of intimacy that I'm after. And after that sort of conversation, I, I felt this need to sort of contemplate there was something there was like, what is the truth? What is the message that is going to come out of this? And that's when I jumped on that mindset call with my coach, because I was just like, I'm really torn. And I'm really torn with promising, you know, that you're gonna make all these millions of dollars, because at the end of the day, the money for me is not the thing. It's like, are you happy doing what you're doing? Do absolutely love what you're doing? And are you doing it to make money? Are you doing it because you actually freaking enjoy doing it? Are you doing it because you feel like this is the thing that's gonna make you money. This is the easy sell, right? Selling business owners and entrepreneurs on how to make more money is an easy sell, right? Because they all want that to some degree, they need that, right? So it's the thing that they need, it's not necessarily the thing that they desire most, the thing they desire most is likely underneath the money, it's what money is going to give them. Right. So what is that? Is that the freedom to be their own boss? Is it the freedom to be at home with their children? Is it the freedom to try to travel around the world? Is it the ability to buy a yacht and not even think twice about it? Right? That there's a difference there? Right? What is the motivating factor behind why people buy things. And when we can understand at that soul level, what's actually driving the decision, we can start to connect with people there instead of what I call surface level connecting with them on the money piece, or just attracting clients. Because the money and the clients isn't the thing that's going to keep them going when they get bored, or when they are frustrated. Or when they hit a challenge or when they're, you know, aren't maybe seeing the results that they want. It's That's not the thing that's going to drive them the thing that's going to drive them is what's sitting on their heart, right is the thing that's, you know, the mission, they want to carry out the impact that they want to create. And so, you know, I walked away from that mindset call feeling reassured, because my mindset coach said, you know, you'd be surprised, Katherine, how many people don't want to talk about money and not from a place of fear. And not from a place of like shame. But that, you know, on an intimacy level, and on a business level, they also don't feel like that's the thing that, you know, really gets them up in the morning. And for me, if it was the thing that got me up in the morning, I never would have quit my corporate career, my six figure career cushy, job with benefits and holidays, you know, I would have taken that I would have stayed on that safe path and just done the thing to collect the paycheck. But you know that collecting the paycheck wasn't the thing that was going to fuel me and wasn't the thing that you know, in terms of mental health, I wasn't going to be happy doing that for the rest of my life. And so I took what I call the less safe path and jumped into entrepreneurship, so that I could have the freedom but knowing that my driving factor had nothing to do with how much money I could make as an entrepreneur, but more about what the lifestyle was going to allow me to do. Now in saying that in the brick and mortar world, you know, you've probably heard me say this before, if you've been listening while it's like I felt duped Do you know when I got into the brick and mortar world because there was nothing about the brick and mortar world for me that was giving me the things I actually wanted, which was the freedom to build my own schedule and make my own schedule and all those sorts of things. But also really helping people at a level level of intimacy and a level of depth. You know, I was producing wine for for a living, and I was selling people on drinking wine, and I was like I have, I know I have a deeper purpose here to serve than just helping people drink more wine. And so you know, I was really good at selling the wine piece of it, because I enjoyed wine, I enjoy food. But the purpose behind it, the mission behind it wasn't there. For me, again, going back to that depth, and why I think a lot of marketing and sales feels out of alignment or unnatural for a lot of heart centered entrepreneurs, because they're like, this doesn't feel good for me, like the way in which we market and sell doesn't feel good, because a lot of the marketing world, if not all of it, is grounded in playing off of people's fear, and playing off of their survival, right is like, if you don't do this, you're not going to survive. And it doesn't mean like death, I'm not talking about death necessarily, you're going to die if you don't do this. But survival, the feel the difference between feeling safe or feeling threatened, right, and when we sell to somebody in a in a state where they're going to start to feel threatened or unsafe, their nervous system goes into fight or flight, and they are going to buy from that space. And if we sell to them in a safe place where their nervous system feels good, they're going to buy in a more empowered place, they're going to buy in a more, you know, desired place, I'm doing this because I desire not because I need, right, when we sell people on money there, it's a need. No matter how much you want to say that you can rewire your subconscious to think about money differently, yada, yada, yada. As long as money is the thing that drives basic survival, which is food, shelter, water, it's always going to be grounded in survival. It doesn't matter how, like wealthy or anything, the more we grew, the more I worried about losing it. All right, and you'll hear lots of six figure seven figure entrepreneurs say the same thing, like money is always going to carry your survival. Energy, no matter how much money mindset, crap you do, and I'm not gonna say crap, because I mean, it is we need to do and move through money blocks and money mindset stuff, but from the angle of selling people on the survival mechanisms, they're always going to be in a state of fear when they buy for you. And so you'll see a lot of messages out there trying to convince you that it's okay to desire more and want more. And the reason that you don't is because it's tied to some conditioning that you had, which it very well could be you could have conditioning around, you know, not not money's evil, or, you know, money doesn't grow on trees, or whatever those beliefs are. But there's a lot of it that's I call cloaking tactics in the marketing world, right, trying to convince people that their desire really is to want more money and wealth because of some conditioning, like I said, that was taught to them, convincing them that it wasn't your soul level, desire is not something that's either conditioned or not conditioned on your heart, your soul level desire, and what actually drives you as a human is born on you like it's, it's something that you were born with, it's a calling that you were given at birth, it's not something that you know, is either conditioned or not conditioned, why people don't pursue their soul level desires, is because of conditioning, believing that they need to follow this path versus the other. But it doesn't change your soul level desire conditioning doesn't change your soul level desire, it's still there, you've just dimmed it right? So to convince somebody that at one point, their desire was to be wealthy and rich, when it when really that's not their soul level desire is BS, right? It's not something that's taken away because of conditioning, it's just something that's doomed, it's still there, it doesn't change. I always say it's like sheep in plain clothing is always going to be a sheep. And the same goes for money until it's not needed to fuel our basic needs, it's always going to be tied to survival. So if you're constantly selling people on making more money, you're playing into the survival, you're always going to play into an essence of fear. And depending on how well the person has been working through money, mindset blocks, and those sorts of things might distinguish the level of fear, right, the level of fear that they carry, but there's always going to be a fear there because they, we need as humans need money to put food on the table, or a roof over our head or take care of our family or whatever it is, unless you're a hunter gatherer and living off the land and trading rice for meat or fruit for rice. If I lived in a community like that, and did my master's research, right. There's a lot of communities around the world that allows you to live that way. And most of us don't want to live that way so to speak, we love the novelties of, of a first world country that we're living in and So, again, it's driven by the need to make money. So it's why if if you're thinking, yeah, Catherine, this makes total sense. And I'm totally resonating with this. And it's why the marketing and sales in your business might not feel natural, because you're trying to convince people they need the thing that you want. And you're playing off of their fear of survival to some capacity, going back to the whole notion and idea, it's not around death, like you're not telling someone, if they don't do this, they're gonna die. Or maybe you are, I don't know, but it could be fear around not finding the love of their life, your relationship coach, and you're saying, if you continue to do these things, you're not going to find the love of your life. That's fear. That's survival and fear, right? Or if you don't do these things, you're not going to belong to this community. Right? It's all playing off of fear. And it's why I, I think it weighs so heavily on my heart and the transparency that I want to share with you all, because I want, if anything, for you to walk away and understand how marketing is done, and the way in which we do things, and how that plays off of what we do. I was on a sales call this week with a woman who jumped on the call. And it's so interesting, I have people always say this, you know, I


was, I'm so glad I booked it after they book the call with me, and we get off the call, they're always like, I'm so glad I did that, because I was thinking of not doing it, you know, I was thinking that I you know, was going to cancel or whatever. And when I first started in the online space, I definitely took some of that personally, but now I'm in such a space where I'm like, I know the reason why people cancel or they don't show up is because of some doubt they carry in their own self right there. They're wondering, is this a good fit? Is this going to work for me all of those sorts of things. And anyways, this particular woman I jumped on a call with, and my sales calls are so unconventional and by sales standards, probably people say that, you know,


I fail drastically, even though I convert my sales calls, you know, like 80 or 90% of the time because I don't go in with an agenda. I don't go in with a script, I don't go in with how to like, help people overcome or bust objections, and usually around sales, money, that sort of thing, right? I really go in with no agenda, and I take every sales call as a unique opportunity to connect with the other person that's on that call. And one of the things I often hear in the sales world again, which I struggle with when it comes to marketing and selling and the truth behind how you're selling and the impact that it has, and the type of people that it attracts is, you know, you often hear sales coaches say, don't take no for an answer. And I absolutely love the word. No, I think that we should normalize Hearing no, and having people say no more often because the word no or not right now is somebody honoring where they're at. And yes, people do, again, make decisions out of fear. But if you're a coach, a consultant, thought leader that wants to work with people that are like hack, yeses, like hack fricking assays, regardless of the fear and whatever. Those are the clients that I want to work with, right, and again, is why I think a lot of the marketing and sales stuff that's been out there was always so counter intuitive to me, because I'm like, Why do I want to like, convince somebody for half an hour, 45 minutes on a call that they should invest with me when there's so many hesitations, like, I can move people through fear for sure I can. And I can help people see different perspectives and all of that. But I can also energetically feel on the other end of that call, if they're ready to make the decision. And whether or not they're going to be a good fit right now in this moment. And it's rare to get on a sales call with a coach, or somebody that's trying to sell you on something that is literally so 100% lean back in their approach, because most people are operating with an agenda and that is to not take no for an answer. So I get on this call with this woman and we're chatting and we're having conversation, I'm getting to know her who she is and what her business is and where she feels like she needs the most support. And I can tell within five minutes 10 minutes that energetically she's not in a place to make a decision right now but she's also not in a decision to make the decision in the next month or two. But I don't tell her that because I want her to come to that conclusion herself. I want her to say a heck yes. An absolute frickin no or a not right now. I want them to Make the decision not me coaching them on making that decision, right? Yes, obviously I'll help them work through their fears or answer any questions that they have. But energetically, I just knew I was like, she's not in a position at this very moment to make this type of investment in elevate with me. And that's okay. Right? We still conversed, we had conversations. And sure enough, she went away. And she came back within 24 hours and said, You know, it's not, it's not a no, it's just not a no right now. And why I want to, like normalize this in the sales space, and why I think you have to understand the truth behind how you're selling because most sales coaches are going to tell you that you can't take no for an answer, get on another call with them, convince them work through with them, all of those sorts of things. Why I don't operate in that capacity and why honor their nose and not right now is because at the end of the day, you are your own sovereign being who has to make that decision. I know, on a human level, what's a heck yes, for me, based on my own human design, I know what's not right now. And I also know what's like a frank Heck no, right. And there's nothing worse than being on a sales call when you can feel the agenda, the sales person's agenda to just sell and dishonor you as the person that's here to buy, dishonor your own intuitive gut decision or deciding factor on whether or not this is a good fit or not. And that's why I never go into my sales calls with that energy and oftentimes get that feedback of people saying, you know, it was such a positive experience, because I never felt for a minute that you were going to try to pressure me into to the call and why I think we need to normalize it. And so if you're going into your sales calls, again, as a, as any type of business, and you're going into if you do sales calls, or you sell directly physically to somebody in a store, right? Maybe you sell cars, maybe you sell wine, I don't know. But whatever you sell, if it's like I'm not taking no for an answer, or I can't let this person leave my store without getting the sale, you're operating from that agenda. And what that does is it eliminates you from being able to really tune into whether that person is honoring their yes or no or not right now, or you're forcing your own agenda onto them. And you're trying to work through all of these sales objections with, because it's like if they say this, you say this. And if they say this, you do this, right, which is a lot of traditionally how sales is done, when we opened our brick and mortar. I remember, our franchise owner at the time said the same thing to us. And it's just traditionally how sales was done. So it's not a bad thing. It's just it's how it was always taught, right is like don't let them leave the store without starting another batch of wine. And I just never jived with that. I was like, if they want to buy another batch of wine, they will. And I never pushed wine on them, literally while they were there bottling and we would always have people repurchase, or they'd walk away and they'd come back. And it's just the way that I've always done sales. And I guess, when I entered into the online space, it's again, why a lot of this stuff weighs so heavily on my heart, so to speak, because it's so counterintuitive to how I do things. And I often get caught up or trapped in the idea, just like everybody else, that I need to do things a certain way in order for it to work. And sometimes I employ tactics that I'm like, Why the hell am I doing that this is like, not the way that I frickin do things. And, you know, I have coaches telling me, I need to do things a certain way. And I second guess myself there for a moment. But, you know, I always have to go back to the truth of what is where I'm being guided and what feels so really right for me. And so I want to share those perspectives with you with, again, the truth behind selling, I'm going to share one other quick story with you because I think it's super powerful too, when it comes to like, the psychology of selling and why we do things a certain way. And one of the biggest questions I've been getting asked lately is, you know, do we put price again, it's all around the money piece of things, do we put price up? You know, for doing a free masterclass or, you know, do we put price up on our website, if we're offering services and that sort of thing? And it was never a question you know, in the offline world again, it's this is all sort of new to me when I get into this online space. I've been on the on that space now for five years. So I mean, it's not that new anymore, but it's always kind of like interesting because in the offline world, we always you know, if you're selling a product on a website, your prices were there or if you were selling a service like a massage, you know if you go to a spa like my Spa has their services up on their website, they all have prices says right? They're all there. But yet somewhere in the online space that somebody taught the tactic of like not putting prices up. And I think there's two schools of thoughts around it, but I was recently asked by my elevate women, you know, Katherine, what do you think about putting price on your website or putting prices, or sharing the prices, you don't want your masterclass or that sort of thing. And, and it goes back to sort of two schools of thought, but it's all grounded in the psychology of selling and how we're playing with people's minds, so to speak. So the notion of not putting the price up there and being transparent with it is the idea of, if I don't put the price, but I put, and I create a lot of value and influence people leading up to that sale, when I reveal the price to them on a sales call or whatnot, I have the opportunity in that moment live on the call to bust all of their objections to get them to buy. And what that does is is again, plays off the psychology of people, right is that price can be a deterrent for people if they can afford it for whatever reason. And when we don't put it there, we have an opportunity to convince them or influence them to buy regardless of price. And that's the one school of thought and then the other school of thought is like just be transparent with the price. Because when you are upfront about it, there's no surprises when someone gets on a sales call with you, there's no surprises about what the price is going to be and you're not getting all these people on a call, they're like I can't afford it, and having to do all of this work to convince people that they can afford it. You know, if you're, if you're in the position that you want, if you want to sell in that way, and you know, like I could, I can work through, you know, all of these, I can afford it sales blocks with people, and that's what you want to do great. You know, it's not the position, I know that I want to take. And it's typically not the position that the women that I work with want to take, either they don't want to spend all this time trying to convince people that they have the money to, to invest in something when maybe in reality, they don't. And at the end of the day, it's not my responsibility as somebody who's selling somebody to convince you that you should cash in your, you know, life savings, or you should not talk to your husband or you should, you know, whatever, like at the end of the day, you again are a sovereign being over your money and making your money decisions. And if you're in this really heightened state of survival and fear around money, and those are the people that you want to attract and help great, but if they're not, you know, being really transparent with your price is why wouldn't you be transparent with it, right? If you want to, we know the people that are going to take a lot of effort to try and convince around money, if you don't want to put that you don't want to do that and be that type of salesperson, then put your money, your price up there, right. But again, it goes back to understanding the psychology behind why people sell a certain way. Or, you know, again, I think the days are going to be done with this. But you know, when I entered the online space, it was like you signed it for a master class or a challenge. And you go through this entire launch, so to speak. And you would know there was an offer coming, but you didn't know what the offer was, and you didn't know what the price was. And I remember being in one of these about five years ago, and people were like trying to Google this person and try to Google their business and try to Google what their price was. And I just think to myself, you know que imagine if you were a brick and mortar business, if I was my winemaking business and you know, I was funneling people to buy wine, but they couldn't find any information about me online or about my business or about anything. There's something so powerful about people being able to know who you are, and see who you are, and information being out there reviews, that sort of thing, right. But yet in the online world, there was like some, it was like this covert way of selling that, you know, always kind of had my spidey sense. OPERS like, why are we doing this, but as a marketer, and a salesperson, I could see right through it, and I knew why people were doing it that way. But again, you know, you've got to decide whether or not which way you want to sell and why you want to sell it. And I'm going to go back to sort of the beginning of this where some you know, where you might be saying like having a you are a marketer and a salesperson, so why are you revealing all of these things to us and sharing these insights with us? And it's because I my goal, again, is for not only for the buyer on the other end of working with me to to be self, you know, to decide on their own accord what is a good fit for them and to honor that right to honor the know the heck yes, and then not right now. I want them to be able to honor that and not from a place of not being able to say no, or, you know, saying yes out of fear of Sir like not surviving or missing out. You know, I never want people to buy out of that space of that fear of missing out or not being able to achieves the thing that they want to achieve. If they don't do this X, Y, and Z, I never want people to buy from that place. And so I want people to understand, you know that, that that's not how I sell. But in the same breath, I want to educate people who are selling and marketing in their business, whether you're a business coach for businesses, or your health coach, or relationship coach, or a physical business, like brick and mortar, like, I want you to understand how you're marketing and the truth behind how you're selling and the impact that it's going to have on the type of customers that you attract, but also on your own nervous system and your own, you know, soul, so to speak, and why I contemplated it so much at the beginning of this year, because I started to question you know, like, can I actually fit into a marketing space that, you know, isn't maybe as transparent as it could or doesn't, you know, sell from a very sort of integral or, you know, truth, I'm all about speaking your truth and, and really transparent, like transparently, showing people who you are, and showing up as authentically as you are? And so there's this part of me that like, goes, How do I fit into the marketing and sales space, when I feel like there's a lot of sales and marketing tactics that aren't necessarily done in full integrity, but maybe not out of, you know, choice, or maybe like, just lack of awareness. And so if I can show people, all the facets of why certain tactics work and why others don't and, or why certain tactics are done, why I shared with my elevate women like, you can certainly not show your price. But this is the typically the reason why people don't is that they don't want people to opt out or not bought or or not continue on with the masterclass or whatever, however you're selling, they don't want to deter people based on price alone, they want to try to convince and create demand for what they're offering before they ever share the price. So that it, it becomes a heck yes, because you've created that demand, even though logically, maybe the price point isn't a thing that you are actually ready to do. But you you know, if in your mind have been convinced or influence to buy, regardless of price. And then the flip side of that is, you know, if you show your price, you actually are weaning out people that are going to be in this heightened state of fear around money, and, and price and all those sorts of things. And what that does, I think, and how I've seen it change my business, and the calls that I've gotten on is one, I get a lot less people, when I put my price up there and I share that very transparently with people, I get a lot less, I get lots less people getting on a call with me saying they can afford it, or with a lot of money, objections, and a lot of fear around money, I get a lot of empowered women or business owners that are like, Yeah, I mean, the investment sounds great. It's just not a place that I can invest that in this very moment. But you are somebody that I you know, see myself investing and when I get to this stage of business, and that, for me feels like a much more empowered place. Because they're making that decision, knowing the price up front, they're still booking coals, knowing the price up front. But I'm not having to spend a lot of time on the call talking about the price of it and trying to convince people that the price is what it is, and all of that. Whereas in the past, when I didn't put the price up front, when I first started in the online space, I didn't put the price up front because I was following what other people were doing. But it was something I always questioned, like, why don't we put the price up friendly, every business that I've helped or run or anything, the price is always like on the website for people to see. And when I understood and learned the backend of it, and the psychology behind it, I was like, Okay, let's try it this way. But I did realize I was getting a lot more people in a fear state around money, and operating from that deep survival. Because a lot of the messaging was make more money, attract more clients, all those sorts of things. And then it was, you know, and then here's the price to for me to show you how to do this. And it was like this panic state of like, I gotta do this. I'm operating in total survival mode. So that's the thing that's been you know, sort of weighing on my heart is like, how do I fit into this marketing and sales world that for me, a lot of it feels counterintuitive. Even though I am a marketer and a salesperson and have been doing this for 20 years. It's probably why I'm able to look at things in this way because I understand all the different facets of why these things and these tactics and strategies are employed in the way that they're employed. Because I've been doing it for so long and I've tried pretty much all of the things that are that are out Where, and I'm seeing more and more and more bombardment in the online space of how to make more money, how to make more money, how to make more money. And I go back to that whole notion that when we're selling business owners, and entrepreneurs are making more money, we're always playing into survival, because it is the thing that people need in order to get the basic necessities in life. And that which is shelter and food. And so regardless, regardless of how, you know, awakened they are and, and how, you know, many money mindset blocks they've gone through, it's always going to be at the root of it, no matter what Intel money is no longer the thing we need in order to survive at that basic level. And so if you're wanting to really connect with somebody on a deeper, more intimate level, it's the question I have for you is how can you truly speak to their soul level desire? What are the things that actually drive them? What are the things that get them up in the morning? What are the things that you know, motivate them or, you know, get them like really fired up to do, and I guarantee you, when you talk to your audience, and your community and your clients, the money isn't going to be the thing that usually is the point of conversation. And why, again, I go back to that DMI got, you know why I felt almost like this very surface level conversation happening. And what I wish for more than anything is, is that we can get beyond how much is in our bank account, and how much money we're making, as business owners, right? Is that, that what is in your bank account is not indicative of who you are, and your worth in value, or any of that in the world. And that is what I hope for, for business owners, service business owners, people that are heart centered entrepreneurs, you know, at the end of the day, like, it's, it's about being human. And if, if we want to create a brand that's human and connected with our people, and really create that intimacy, we have to go below just making money, we have to go deeper and have deeper conversations than just how much money we're making, or how amazing our life is, so to speak. Because you know, at the depth of who we are, it's deeper than that, right is like, you got to get to know people at the soul level. And that can take time for your people that can really take time for them, especially in the marketing and sales process, right is like not everyone's going to just open their heart to you. On first encounter, it rarely happens that way. And that's why being vulnerable and showing up as vulnerable as you can is hard for a lot of people because they're like, You want me to like be vulnerable to like a bunch of strangers on the internet, like, how am I going to do this. And it's true, right is like most people, you know, your spouse, your closest friends, your family, are the ones who typically know you the best. And it's why a lot of times I say you know, create content, like you're talking to your best friend at a coffee shop, because that's how people really get to know who you are at the depth of who you are. And all the different facets of what makes you you and if you truly want to get paid for being you that you have to show up in that capacity, right. And again, easier said than done, because we tend to put up a little bit of shielding and protection when we put ourselves out into the ocean of the online world because we we don't want to be rejected, we want to feel like we belong we want to have people accept us for who we are. And so we we are a bit reserved whether you're a business owner creating content to try and sell what it is that you sell your life likely putting up a bit of a shield. Or if you're you know, a consumer looking to purchase, you're likely putting up a bit of a protection shield to I need to really get to know this person before I reach out or you know, share the deepest parts of who I am. And so if we want to get to that depth we have to do we have to talk a little bit more and have conversations that are less about money and all the you know the goals one of the questions I often get asked like what are your goals and as a manifesting generator? It's like the question I hate the most. What are your goals? It's like, huh, it's a manifesting generator, I have a bazillion desires. I have a lot of sparks and hits and things that I'm you know, intrigued by and I and I move to what intrigues me most in that moment, and it doesn't make sense to a lot of people they you know that it's that hard number it's like I can give you a hard number but again feels very surface level to me because it's saying that I want to, you know, attract 10 new clients and make, you know, $100,000 a month or whatever, just again, like I said, it feels very sort of, like, sterile and artificial. And, you know, why do I want to do that is is to me more of an important question. And I find is a more important question to a lot of my clients that I work with is like the why I want to do that is far more important than the actual thing. I mean, again, you can put a goal out there to the world. And it means really nothing unless you're motivated or driven at a soul level to to achieve it.


That you chasing of the money and the chasing of the number of clients. And the validation and success that we think is going to come from it. For me, like I said, is quite surface level. So it's what's been sort of hitting home on my, my heart here, and some of the, you know, torn feeling, or the yo yo feeling and how to sort of fit into a marketing and sales space that oftentimes operates very counterintuitive to how I show up in the world and how I do things. And so the contemplation is real. And I just wanted to share, you know, the truth behind how you're selling and why and give you sort of a glimpse into, you know, the other side of marketing that you might not have realized. And as you employ some of the tactics that maybe your coaches put, if you feel that like gut punch when something said, and this isn't to like, say, You're wrong, and I'm right, it's just to like, I say that, you know, when you get that sort of nudge or gut punch of like, ooh, that didn't feel good when they said that, like, why get curious as to why they said it, because they're operating in the way that they want to operate. It doesn't mean you have to operate in that way. Right. And there's truth in the nudges, there's truth and they got punches, and there's truth in the heck yeses, no, and not right now is and I want to normalize that more in the online marketing and sales space where when somebody says no, it's like, Heck, yeah. You said, No, you're you're making an empowered decision that's in alignment with your unique energy and design. And that's beautiful. If you say, heck, yes, that's also beautiful. And if you say not, right now, that's equally as beautiful. And I think as salespeople, we need to honor that instead of approach every sale as an agenda of don't take no for an answer. So I hope that you've enjoyed this sort of very raw and vulnerable and kind of in the moment of like, where my kind of head is and how I would love to see the online marketing space change, and where I feel like I can make that change in the things that I do and in the mentorship that I offer, because at the end of the day, all of the people that come into my space, my goal is to help them make decisions that feel good for them, not decisions that fit my agenda or expectations. So that is all I got for you today. I hope that you've enjoyed this episode, and we are going back to having a brilliant guest on next week. Cheers.

Now on episode number 39 I'm super stoked to have our next guest on the show because she's talking about a hot topic, Facebook groups whether you love or hate Facebook, I honestly promise you this is a really wicked episode because she's going to share how effective they are to grow your business if you commit to going all in on them. Michelle Vroom from Think Like A Boss marketing will give you hope that Facebook groups are a great way to build community and connection with your audience. If you desire community and connection, I can't agree more with her because I think that Facebook Groups allow you to really cultivate that community and connection in a way that Instagram or even Facebook business pages or even your email marketing don't necessarily do and so be sure to tune into that episode next week because honestly, we dive into not only Facebook groups, but also Michelle shares her journey from leaving corporate to becoming a new mom and then starting her business. So be sure to tune in it's going to be an awesome episode.