How Megan Kaun Turned Her Dreamwork Into a Sold-Out Launch in Less than 90 Days

intro/outro: [00:00:00] After generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email, your host Kathryn Thompson, takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you are ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen, heard, and a Sought after Entrepreneur in your industry without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients, you are in the right place.

Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter one size fits all approach to marketing, and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients. When you do this, you can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast, and here's your host, Kathryn Thompson. 

Kathryn Thompson: Hey. Hey. I am super stoked to have Megan on the show [00:01:00] today to share with you her amazing work that she's doing in the world, and also I've had the pleasure of working with her over the last three months. And so I am so excited for her to share her experience and journey over those three months.

'cause I know it's gonna be super helpful for all of you listeners. But without further ado, I'm just gonna turn it over to you, Megan, and let you share with our audience who you are and who you serve. Thanks, 

Guest: Catherine. Has it only been three months? That's, I know, right? It feels like years. Anyhow, so my name is Megan Coun and I teach intentional dream work and.

How did I get to that? Well, it's been a bit of a, a long and winding journey that sort of started in 2020 when everything shut down in the world and I got a serious cancer diagnosis. So at the time I was actually working as an engineer and also in the nonprofit sphere. So very much in science, like science, advocacy.

And engineering. [00:02:00] And I was also doing spiritual work at the time, just kind of as a side hobby, sort of to keep myself sane enough to keep on functioning in our crazy world, um, status quo. So anyhow, this COVID cancer thing really like shook things up in my world. I mean, I quit all my jobs, I stopped everything.

Everyone else was quitting everything too, and I was. I was having a really hard time with it and I went into deep, deep anxiety, so crippling that I really couldn't even function in the world and I didn't know what to do. And what came to me was a dream. I had this dream one night and it was like a funny movie dream, and I woke up laughing and my anxiety was gone and it.

Flipped something in my head, like it showed me that I needed to pay attention to dreamwork and that I needed to really change my life. Like bring in more humor, like bring in more playfulness. So anyway, fast forward, long story short, cured my cancer, got more involved in, um, a [00:03:00] spiritual path in the search of trying to figure out why did this, how did this dream heal me?

How did this dream literally? Heal me from a physical condition overnight. And along the way I learned a lot and, and it was a really fascinating journey because, you know, coming from a very analytical brained mind realm and then realizing this stuff in what I would call the imaginal realm was so important to my physical life, so important to my wellbeing.

My dreams started guiding me. My dreams really started being my like secret ally, my secret partner. So most recently, um, I have been really, really called to share this work. Dreamwork? Yes. Al Also along the way, I did get involved in a ang Qigong and was a certified teacher and healer also. So it's still, I, it's so funny.

You know, I, I'm still actually skirting both worlds. I'm still. Actively working in the engineer world, part-time in a business, and also teaching in this spiritual realm part-time as well. But it's actually kind of perfect for [00:04:00] me to weave the two together. But I was having trouble actually making money in the spiritual realm, right?

I had students, I was teaching a lot of Qigong, not a lot of dream work, and I really wanted to grow that side of my business, make it profitable, make it at least even with my engineering work, if not, you know. Have that be my primary source of income and not the engineering work, and I was having trouble, so I found Catherine.

And, um, she has really helped me. It's been incredible. So, last three months, I've went from really having no clue, not really knowing what I should do. Really like having all of my launches and my offerings bomb to, uh, selling out my class last month. And now I, I mean, I'm like fully in the teacher's. I'm a teacher.

I'm a dream school teacher, teaching people functional dream work. It's so cool, Catherine. It's so amazing. There's again, I, those last three months have felt like [00:05:00] three years. So 

Kathryn Thompson: I love it. I love it. And do you remember when you came and sort of found me, what sparked you to wanna work with me? Like where were you kind of at in your journey?

You had kind of mentioned that you had tried some things thing, you know, you were kind of teaching that sort of thing, but you really wanted to make money in the spiritual space. Where were you sort of at? 

Guest: Right. So I was doing a lot of teaching for free, which is fun. It was really fun, right? I mean, you get your certifications, you wanna serve people.

It's so fun to have a a class. But there was something, um, that was out of reciprocity with my energy. Um, with just teaching for free. Also, I had a really, I had a feeling that there was some developmental aspect, like some aspect of my soul growth, that that would only come out if I really took this path to, uh, integrating, making money with this type type of teaching.

So I had joined [00:06:00] other, I had joined a couple other groups, other classes where I was part of a container and I was being taught different ways of launching my business online. And they were helpful to some extent, but I still, there was some blockage. I could tell that there was something blocking me. I couldn't figure out what it was.

I felt like I was being really open and adventurous and getting outta my comfort zone, but it's, there was still a disconnect, like what I was putting out into the world wasn't connecting with people, and I found you through a circuitous route, and I just had an instinct. There was, I just had a feeling that, well, in the least, I wanted to chat with you about working together, and I remember trying to make the decision.

I actually brought the decision to my dreams. I don't know if you know that. Um, and I didn't know that. Yeah, well, of course I did. Right? All major decisions I bring to my dreams and, you know, what came back was, uh, nuanced and positive. Kind of like it's gonna be a good. It's a good time, but you're [00:07:00] going to be challenged.

You're gonna be put in places that you're uncomfortable. That's what I got. So, you know, usually with soul growth, you have to go to places that are uncomfortable. Um, and um, so I said yes and it was sort of all, you know, I'll be honest, it was kind of my last ditch effort. I was like, all right, I'm gonna like.

I'm gonna give this my all. I have three months where I'm not doing anything else. I'm gonna make this investment. I'm gonna put all my effort towards doing what Catherine says. I'm, you know, I'm gonna trust her. Whatever she says, I'm gonna do it. It's gonna be great, even if it's uncomfortable. And AF in three months.

Okay. That's not very much time. So if it's a total flop, then maybe I'll just keep this a hobby and focus on my engineering work for money. Right. Which is fine, right? I mean, maybe that who I didn't know, but I, I felt like I had tried so much, I'd already spent so much money and time on this, and so it's like if I can't make it work with you, then I'll take that as a sign that, that I need to pivot somehow.[00:08:00] 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Um, 

Guest: yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Do you remember on our very first kickoff call when you were talking about your work and talking about your offers, and then all of a sudden off the cuff, you kind of mentioned dreamwork, and I was like, uh, that's it. Yeah. And then you're like, what? And I'm like, and you were kind of looking in a different direction.

And I was like, let's focus on the dreamwork here for a minute. I'm like, that's it. And you're like, really? Yeah. Yeah. Do you wanna share? That was all about, yeah. 

Guest: Yes, I do. Catherine. So just first I'd like to say that, call that first kickoff. Yeah, sure. I mean, if anyone was looking from the outside, they look, it was like a business call, right?

It was like this on Zoom and we were being official and all this stuff. But energetically it was a ceremony. Yeah. You know, so we went in with an intention, right? The intention was to find, to put me back on my, on the path, right? To find the focus for the next three months. Like, what is this thing you are [00:09:00] going to create?

What's the, what's the subject? What's the focus? So that was the intention, and then we just sat on the call until that was clear. Yeah, and for you it was clear pretty quickly. So, you know, at the time I thought that I wanted to teach Qigong. Yeah, and do my Qigong teaching and healing. I'd had some Qigong clients, so I thought maybe that's that, you know, paid clients.

So I thought maybe that was the way that I should go and the dreamwork. Sure. You know, I had a certification. I'd done some coaching and some teaching in it, but like not a lot and I was really marginalizing it. I like, and then so you brought it up and I had a negative reaction. Yeah.

I love that. So why did I have a negative reaction? Because clearly that's was the path of success for me. You, you found it right away. You, you like honed in on it. Yeah. See, [00:10:00] because that was the path of my success. Part of my subconscious was blocking me from it. Part of me didn't wanna be successful.

Right. So that was my disconnect. That was the blockage. That's what I, why I hadn't been connecting with people because I was refusing to do the thing that would make me successful because I was scared. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I was super comfortable teaching my little free classes of Qigong and not getting paid for it.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. But the 

Guest: dream work. Like was going to be successful, people were going to connect with it and I was gonna get paid for it. And you know, that terrified part of me. Yes. So, um, so you sat on the phone with me until I stopped arguing with you and Yeah. Right. And um, and then when, and the energy shifted and the ceremony was over and then I went on.

It the first week after of integration, energetically. I mean, I, I understand [00:11:00] how, you know, energy works, of course 'cause of my Qigong work. 'cause I knew it was happening the whole time. Doesn't mean it wasn't super painful because it was just like, oh s word. Like, I'm gonna actually have to do this. I'm gonna actually have to do this big scary thing.

So, but I, I got over it pretty quickly. Um. And I knew I was going to be supported, right? Like, so I kept through the journey. I kept on like I would be on the path and it and the path is very simple. It's very simple. It's very clear. So you think, why do pe, why don't more people do this Well? 'cause it's terrifying.

Like you don't wanna on the path. So you would just keep on putting me back in the path. Like, Nope, don't get distracted over the internet. Get back, go back to this one simple thing we were gonna do. 'cause that's like a, a me a co, a distraction mechanism we do to ourselves. We distract ourselves and we grow the scope of what we're doing so that it's so unmanageable that.

[00:12:00] We will never do it. Right. Totally. So, totally. You didn't let me do that. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I love it. I love it because I remember that first call so clearly and I, and I remember even post that call, even that, that week after you were like. I was frustrated with you. I was mad at you because I could see so clearly this path of success and I see it very instantaneously with people.

And it can be jolting. Absolutely. 'cause it's like your subconscious, that part of you that's scared for success, money, holding it all. Is going, no, I will stay safe over here doing the thing for free. Even though the intention is I want this, I want to be able to do this work to help people, but I also want to be energetically paid for it and compensated for it.

That's success. And so I could see that instantly. And I also knew the resistance. And felt the resistance, but I've also been in the [00:13:00] same resistance myself. I think in every stage of growth and every evolution that we go through. The resistance will, yeah, definitely pop up. And so you talk about me bringing you back to the path.

Can you share with people some of the distractions? Like you talk about your brain being noisy. Can you share some of the distractions that would come up that were pulling you off the path? Maybe some of the more obvious ones, and maybe some of the ones that are like less obvious for people that they might not even think of it as a distraction.

If there are those ones that are a little more, um, nuanced and maybe not as visible. 

Guest: I mean, really for me it was constantly trying to expand the scope. Yeah. And if I, or change course. Yeah. Like we had a plan. It was a very simple plan. It's very simple. I was going to teach an intentional dream work masterclass.

That would lead into a paid class. It's a very simple plan, right? It's not, not hard. So part of [00:14:00] me kept on wanting to change the scope, make it smaller, or expand it in ways that, again, would've made it so difficult and impossible that I would've burned out. So that was mostly what I went through. Also, just internal, a lot of internal doubt spirals that would come and go through the prac for the, through the practice, through the process.

It was a practice. Yeah. Um, yeah, but mostly, and I still notice it, I still notice myself doing this sometimes trying to like. Put my attention in five different places, which will destroy the whole process. Yeah. So it's like, it's really important, especially for me, I'm a projector in human design, so like it's really important for me to be really careful with where my energy's going.

And so you are very helpful and, and helping me focus what I really love. Well, there's a lot of things I love about working with you, but one of the things is I know I can really trust you to always tell me. Like what I need to do and nothing [00:15:00] else. Like the, the, the essential, like you, you would distill it down.

You never had me do anything that wasn't completely essential. And so it makes, it really, it makes it way more doable. 'cause the process for me and maybe a lot of people who are doing this for the first time there, it is just really emotional. There's just a lot of stuff we're processing and new, we're making new patterns internally and so we're having to like.

Constantly step into being new versions of ourselves. And so that's like already a lot of work. Yeah. So you made the actual physical process like, okay, now you, now you need to do, and you were very good at like putting it in steps. Like you would give me homework. Right. Okay. The first thing is you have to figure out the outline for your masterclass.

The second thing you have to do this, and then, you know, and then you never, you didn't give it to me all at once. So that. It would just totally overwhelm me. Um, yeah. And I would come to you in meetings with all these ideas and you'd just be like, yes, no, no, no, no. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it was just okay. And I would like, I would not work on anything unless you said yes.

'cause then again, I would've [00:16:00] cannibalized my energy. Um, totally. And looking back, I can see why you made, like, why you gave me the advice you gave me at the time. I didn't, you know, I didn't know, I don't know much about. Yeah, internet marketing. 

Kathryn Thompson: So yeah. And the trust, I think for you just to reflect back to everyone, the trust in that relationship and the trust in what I was sharing.

'cause I think for many of us, we try to overcomplicate. That's a really great way to distract ourselves by trying to overcomplicate or expand the idea or add more bells and whistles to things, more steps, more processes, down, sells upside. Sell side sells all things, um, and changing course. Like that whole thing of like, I think I should change direction, or maybe this isn't it or, and you touched on it hugely here, is that when we're going through this for the first time, particularly as a personal brand who's [00:17:00] putting themselves out there and teaching something from the heart and soul.

It is mostly all emotional and all of the inner demons. And so for me it's about how can we keep this as simple as possible, whether you're a projector or a generator or a reflector, it's like, what are the most essential steps? And then from there, how can you grow it? And there's always room to grow, but if you're burnt out after round one.

You're never gonna wanna go to round two and three and burnt out doesn't necessarily have to be the tasks you were TA doing right, the things you were implementing. It can be emotionally burnt out. Like, man, that stretched me way beyond my capacity. And then I had to do 7,000 steps to get there when. For me, it is those bite-size, very essential steps and the trust of not seeing the full picture, but trusting that I'm guiding you even though you didn't have all the answers.

'cause I think that's another big one for people where they're like, I can't see the [00:18:00] end goal, or I can't see the end process and therefore I get distracted. Because I'm, I don't maybe trust the guidance and maybe the lack of trust and guidance is distraction in and of itself, but it's, I don't trust it, so I'm gonna fill in the blanks where I feel like Catherine isn't filling in the blanks.

And then you go down these side paths that just end up, yeah, burning you out or taking you off course from the actual intention of what the plan was. And it is simple. It is very simple. It's not easy, but it's simple. 

Guest: Yeah, very. I remember asking you like, what, because I, I, in our first, first call I was like, you know, is this gonna get me an ROI, am I gonna get my money back?

Right. I mean, which is important, but also, um. It's not the whole picture. And um, and I remember asking you like, what are things that people do where it [00:19:00] doesn't work? Like where this process with you doesn't work? And you said changing your path 5 million times, like doing course changes like. You're going in and you're gonna teach dream work, and then you're actually gonna teach intuition and then you're actually gonna teach Qigong, like if you keep on changing your focus.

So I did not do that. Yeah. I was like constantly reminding myself don't do that. And it sometimes it was scary, but, but that's okay. And you know, also, I think all of us that are trying to do this heart led work, we're doing it because of. Because of a vision of the quality of life that we will have by being engaged with it.

Right? Like, yeah, we all can go out and get a cubicle job somewhere. Yeah, it's fine. Right? And it, it's probably like, it's less putting yourself out there and you get like a, maybe a more stable paycheck and maybe you get health insurance or whatever. And so there's benefits to that, right? But I, you know, I came to this because I've been there and that wasn't good for my soul.

[00:20:00] And I want a certain quality of life. I want a quality of life where. When I'm putting things out there for work that I'm getting that same reciprocity back from, yeah, the universe. I want an, uh, equal energetic exchange. And not just money, but yes money, but not just money. Also, like I wanna be lifted up by my work, um, and I want to have more free time and I want to be able to integrate.

You know, the things I love into official work, right? So we're, we're, we're doing this because we want a better lifestyle. And so if we put ourselves in a position where we are like way emotionally over taxing and overstretching ourselves and that, like, that fail, right? It doesn't work like it might as well go back to the desk job.

So, um, I, you know, I came, I butt up against that several times where I was like, uh, like I'm feeling really uncomfortable, but. For me, those moments were just like, where I was really stretching to like enter into a new realm of performance and [00:21:00] existence. So, you know, they, they ended and now I feel comfortable doing things that I used to be completely uncomfortable doing.

So. And it continues. It continues. I don't think it does end No way. 

Kathryn Thompson: No way. It never, it never does. And I think. You know, the jumping from strategy to strategy or idea to idea, that is in and of itself a distraction. It's a protection mechanism, right? To keep you from just allowing yourself to succeed.

Because if we just, and I'm not saying stay the path, just to stay the path, but give yourself three months to stay the path. Right, right. Trying something on once and saying it doesn't work or whatever. To me, as you haven't committed to that path and three months is a very short period of time in business and also growth of business, but also ROI like what we [00:22:00] build in three months.

Has the capacity for you to generate ROI over and over and over again? 'cause we've created the foundation and a system. In which you can share your gifts with the world. And I think that's the one thing that often is shortsighted in these conversations of like, should I do this work or should I work with so and so?

Is will I see an ROI And after 90 days you might. But the goal is, is that you've created something that's sustainable that turns ROI over and over and over again. Not will I attain this thing in the 30 days? And I think that's where our instant gratification culture and everything happening so quickly and all of that, we've lost sight of, well, if I actually build a sustainable foundation from the get go doing work that my soul is really lit up to do, then I have the capacity to see this [00:23:00] beautiful ROI or reciprocity over and over and over again.

Guest: Exactly. Yeah. I mean, right now I have total confidence in how to build, um, you know, a funnel. Yeah. I built a couple of them now. And the thing, it's interesting because you don't do it for us, which I know, I think maybe other coaches might be doing the work for the people, but I, that would not have served me well, that actually would not have been empowering.

Um, yeah. Yeah. It was a pain in the ass to try to figure out all the stuff on my own. I mean, you helped me, you always would help me. We would always do screen share if I ever needed help with some of the programs, especially meta ads. Um, but I'll, I'll share that. One of the most empowering moments for me was wrestling with meta ads on my own at five in the, from like five to 12 in the morning to try to get them to work, use, you know, and I got, I did it.

I did it. Yeah. And that was cool. So like, I know how to do all this stuff by myself. [00:24:00] Yeah. And that, and I mean, eventually I hope to, you know, offload it onto other people, but like I know how to do it. That's awesome. Yeah. Right. Yeah. I'm not beholden to anybody. Like I have these, these skills are mine forever.

Um, and the funnels are mine and, um. And I know how to, I know how to work 'em. I, I get it. Like I, you know, the, I didn't have the clarity at the beginning. I didn't, I had no idea. You were like, yeah, we're gonna go to you selling a class. I'm like, 

Kathryn Thompson: sure. In three months. Yeah. Right. 

Guest: But no, I mean, I, it did. I did.

It worked. It worked. I get it now. It, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: I often say this to people that this skill. Is like when you're in business, like understanding your messaging, understanding your sales system, understanding the pathway that you're taking people on is so essential to learn off the get go, in my opinion, so that you can then [00:25:00] delegate or outsource later.

The problem is, is if you don't understand it and you outsource it, and then people produce things for you and you have no idea any basis on how to. Assess it, grade it, anything. And you're, and not saying that you're gonna get untrustworthy people, but if it's not working or it's not aligned or whatever, you just wouldn't know how to assess it.

And now you have a picture of what you want to create and how you want to create it because you've done it. And now it's really easy to say, okay, I'm gonna outsource my meta, or I'm gonna outsource funnel building because I know. What I'm actually wanting to build and I know the standard of what I'm wanting to build 'cause I've done it.

Guest: Yeah. And I can, and I could always go in and tweak it myself. Even if someone was doing it, I could fix it up. I, you know, I know a lot of people that have outsourced everything and it also feels like there's a bit of like an energetic disconnect with what they put out and who they really are. I don't know.

I [00:26:00] feel it subtly. Totally. Um, and I feel a total connection with what I'm putting out there. 'cause I, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, and 

Kathryn Thompson: the disconnect often happens in the, the inability to communicate what it is that you want to put out there because you have a vision and idea, but you've never actually implemented it.

So you don't, there is a disconnect between that. So then to just get someone to implement it and you've got this vision, like it's, it's really hard to translate that unless you are a master communicator of. All of it. And I think that's a skill that you acquire in the business. Like you have this vision of what you want, but can I articulate, communicate it, and then can I do it in a way that captures the essence of who I am in a way that the people that I'm delegating to understand?

And I think you need to walk that path first of what you like and you don't like, or what you want and you don't want. Yeah. 

Guest: Yeah. I think so too. I mean, a lot of [00:27:00] this past, I'm still doing it is, is trying to. Further define and further figure out like what's, what's the exact niche that I'm fulfilling here?

Right? Yeah. And it's an iterative long journey that changes throughout time. Um, but it's so creative. And when I get those moments of inspiration, I'm so happy I'm doing this work. 'cause I actually can, I have like, there's an outlet for it. I can put it out there, and it's definitely part of my business and my career, which feels also like way more satisfying than if it was just, you know, a hobby.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, yeah. And so in the three months you came with an intention and then you held this beautiful masterclass with exceptional turnout, and you sold out your first ever. Class, which is amazing. So you're in, you're running that [00:28:00] at the moment? 

Guest: Yep, yep. Yeah, halfway through. Yep. It's, and that, and it, it's interesting, Catherine, I think I told you the day after.

My, my sales ended for the paid class and it sold out and I was like, oh my gosh. Like I thought the last three months, or actually it wasn't three, it was two months. Yeah, we did that too. That's insane. Yeah, because that was a month ago. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, whatever. I, you know, I thought that that was hard, but you know, it really starts, yeah, I've sold the class, it's, I got students they've paid, and now I get the joy of delivering, which is a whole nother.

Learning, learning curve, growth phase. Um, that was really challenging the first couple weeks 'cause I was doing, um, you know, the monetize before you make it, right? I mean, I had a, I had an outline, I had a rough idea. I had tons of content, but you don't really know what's gonna wanna come through until you're actually like in it.

Um, so that process has been fascinating. But [00:29:00] I, I mean, I'll just say like, I am super comfortable with it now. Yeah. How amazing is that? So amazing. I know. So even that whole thing has been a growth phase for me. Like it went from the first class was like really hard and not necessarily an equal energy, energy exchange, you know?

Yeah. It's a lot of effort. I was exhausted, um, to now, like I'm really, I'm really in it. Like I'm feeling that flow, like I get out of the class is energized. Um, the information that wants to be taught comes through the classes, kind of, they feel like they write themselves. It's awesome. Um, yeah. I'm having a lot of fun, so I, yeah, I, I, I'm looking forward to growing it, um, which is the next step, right?

Like, okay, you know, I have this seed and this worked, and it's, we have a proven concept and so now, um, yeah, how do I grow it to reach more people to actually, what I really wanna do is form an intentional dreamwork community. Yes. [00:30:00] Uh, because Dreamwork is great to do as an individual. That's totally fine.

You can totally do that. But it really comes alive when you have a group working with the same kind of core tenants together and you can help each other mirror each other's dreams, um, work with other people to like, see aspects and facets of what's coming through that you, you just can't see alone.

Right? Yeah. And it's so rich in dream work, especially if. You have a community that's been together for a while? Um, yeah. It's like, it's, it's so special. So I, I would really, really like to grow that, like grow this, you know, the idea of teaching one-off classes into, um, into a community aspect where we meet regularly and practice together and share together and, um, and all that.

So that's gonna be my, that's my next developmental phase. 

Kathryn Thompson: I love that. I love that. And when, when you talk about dreamwork, it's not like archetypes or abstract sort of things like share [00:31:00] with people what your sort of unique approach is to dreamwork. 'cause it is very intentional and there are things that you do that really will help people take what they're.

Getting through their dreams regardless of how weird or strange or abstract it is, and really translate that into being able to manifest or get clarity or guidance on a path or a direction to take or what some ideas, maybe unique ideas that are coming through that they just, they're not seeing in their day-to-day life, but they're getting through their dreams.

Guest: Yeah. So the, the way that I teach dreamwork is pretty unique actually. Yeah. Um, so it's, it's not, um, like analysis, it's relationship. So we treat dreams like a spirit or consciousness that we can interact with. So it's not analytical. We, we don't work with our dreams in our logical brain, in our normal linear.[00:32:00] 

Day-to-day life, brain mode, basically. Yeah. So dreams happen in the liminal realm. Dreams happen in the imaginal, in this imaginal space, right? We're in. We're in an altered state when we're dreaming, and so we need to meet our dreams there. So we need to meet our dreams in the imaginal realm. So there's a lot of different practices that we can do, but really the very, very first one is just to see your dream as as an other, as some, some one, somebody that you can relate to.

And all the different themes in your dreams also as energies, unconsciousness that you can relate to and dialogue with and work with over and over again. Yeah. Um, so you know, the main practice is. Entering into a conversation with your dreams through, um, a very simple, intentional dream work framework. So at night before you go to bed, you would write down an intention, right?

That's the question. Yeah. Hey, hey, you know, how can you get an answer [00:33:00] if you didn't ask the question? Totally. It's not, it's not gonna work. Right. You know, it's funny, um, I mean, most of us don't do this. Most of us go to sleep and maybe information comes through in our dreams and sometimes it's amazing information and it does answer a bunch of questions and or solves problems and and whatnot.

But imagine how much more powerful that could be if you've actually. Have an intention actually asked a question. Yeah. So we always ask a question, um, and we don't, um, ask questions like yes or no answers. 'cause that's pretty limited. How boring consciousness is is infinite. I mean, there's so many different, more perspectives than you can see out there.

So if you ask a yes or no question, it's kind of boring, right? Um, so we, we ask flowering questions like, you know, what would I need to know if I was going to take this job, um, for example, rather than, should I take this job? Right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, and so just, just doing that already. Will open up your dream life.

I've seen it happen so many times. [00:34:00] Um, it was so gratifying after the masterclass, for example, the f the free masterclass to s see how many people, dozens of people have written me and said, I didn't really dream, but after just, you know, understanding the framework that I see dreams through and just writing down an intention before they went to bed.

All of a sudden, like now they have this beautiful relationship with their dream work. Yeah. Um, and then the other part of it is just writing the dream down in the morning. Right? Because we don't, I mean, if I didn't write my dreams down within a minute of waking up, they would be gone. I wouldn't remember any of 'em.

And that's not 'cause I have bad memory. It's just 'cause they're in this, like, again, that's imaginal. They're not in our ordinary reality. So it's kind of, it's tricky sometimes to like bring them into this space. So we write them down so that you can remember. Um, yeah. And then again, we have lots of different, um, very creative somatic, uh, simple practices that you can do to kind of tease out meanings to, it's uh, it's sort of [00:35:00] like icebreakers.

If you go to a party and you're trying to get to know the people there a little better. Like there's like. Icebreakers help you like get to learn about people and understand them better. So they're kind of like dream I dreamwork, icebreakers that we do love it, um, to get to know what's going on. What is this dream trying to tell me?

Um, and what comes out is always really magical and surprising. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. What's really cool, and um, I haven't gone through your entire process, but on one of our calls I had just when I was, uh, guiding you, I had just off the cuff, had said that over the last three nights I had a recurring dream that was slightly different, where I was stuck in the queue at an airport.

I was stuck in the queue at a train station. I was stuck in the queue at. Some other thing I can't remember. And then it was like there was all these animals around me. But one of the things you said to me was, when you go to sleep tonight, ask [00:36:00] yourself who you want in your corner. Like who? Who's in the space with you?

And all of a sudden, in my dreams. There was these celebrities that started to pop up in my dreams and you were like, I'm not surprised. So what's interesting now is when I go to bed at night, I'm asking myself these questions. And what's interesting, last night I was, I asked a question and now I usually, I'm like in and out of wake when I'm like starting to ask these questions.

So I actually even forget the question. So I need to start writing down the question on paper because I'll forget it, but I woke up. And it's so visual to me. Still this dream is so visual, but I had this box of these little fairy, um, you know, very beautiful artisan fairy. Almost pottery made fairy things in this box that was like gifted to me.

And so now I want to go to sleep tonight and ask my dreams what that [00:37:00] fairy box is. But the dreams have changed drastically because now I feel like I'm getting this like symbolism, like, you know, whether it's like stuck in a queue or lots of water right? Coming through in my dreams and different things like that.

And so it's. Such a different way to understand dreams than like through that analytical thinking brain, which I think for me, and I think a lot of my listeners, we spend so much time in our analytical brain, um, and trying to figure out what's our next move? What's that next step? What's that next decision?

How do I answer that? And it's very analytical and. Intuitively somatically and through our Dr. Dreams, which we spend a vast majority of our life sleeping and in dream state, the answers are there. 

Guest: Oh yeah, the answers are there. I mean, nothing wrong with our logical brain. No, it's so [00:38:00] wonderful. Um, but we need to know how to go back and forth.

This is a lost skill in our world. Yes. Um, and I do it all. I mean, I'm constantly doing it myself and it's so cool. It really works. I can go like from engineering brain and then room, and now I'm in like limbal space dreamland, and it's. Like that's, that's being like a whole person, right? We can, we can, we can be both.

It's not either or. It's not like, because I can, uh, you know, intuitively pull out, um, you know, I mean it AraC information from dreams doesn't mean that I'm not a real scientist. Like, yeah. It's, it is, they're just skills. They're both different skills. It's totally fine. Um, yeah, and you know, our bodies are the most advanced, amazing supercomputers in existence.

We have so many ways of knowing. We have so many, um, wisdom centers in our bodies in, uh, there are energy [00:39:00] centers, right? Yeah. To the heart, you know, or the sacral center, for example. Like these are. The, they have vast intelligence. Yeah. And so all the information that's coming through in our dreams is, is stored in our bodies.

It's there. So we just have to learn how to, how do we dialogue with that information. Um, so this dream work is very, very embodied. It is not like. Going up out there, just out of, you know, and finding the information in the heavens. N no, that's not what we do. We're really, really clear in our bodies. We, you know, we work with the energy of our bodies to make, I mean, our bodies are our dreaming vessels, so we make them, you know, clear receptors of the information coming through.

Um, and then our dreams become more clear and, you know, the information coming through that we need becomes more obvious, um, with those practices. Also, yeah. Yeah. I mean the, the type of dream work I teach is a hun, like absolutely more how [00:40:00] dreams were worked with in ancient times. Beautiful. So a lot of the, and nothing wrong with, you know, the mainstream kind of modern dream work, like a lot of it's based on Carl Jung's work, um, who is amazing.

He's a, he is a modern shaman. Um, yeah. But a lot of the way that it's interpreted by his, um, disciples has become very, very analytical. Um, which I played with it myself and it. Was actually, it did more harm than good. I just got really confused and fixated and worried and obsessed. And it's like if you're doing dream work and it's like not bringing you like harmony and peace, like you're doing a rush.

So I just, you know, I actually think. If we could talk to Carl Young right now today, that he would, he would be doing this more somatic form of dream work. I mean, the work he did was very intuitive, right? He would listen to people's dreams and he would, he would have AraC information come through. He would just know which, which, uh, fairytale to tell the person or which song to sing, you know?

And that's what we do [00:41:00] in this dream work. We like listen to our bodies, we listen to our intuition. And we access the information from our dreams that way, and, and then we bring it into daily life, right? We like do things to physicalize it in daily life so that we can, um, so that our dreams can manifest.

These, these possibilities that we, uh, are, that we witness in our dreams in our daily life. And that is, that's a very old practice. This is documented in many indigenous cultures that, you know, dreams, um, magic or medicine wouldn't potentiate until you brought it into daily life. So that is, that's also something Yeah.

That, that we do a lot of. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And you talk about the science side of things because they're, you know. A lot of discoveries or some discoveries came via people's dreams. 

Guest: I, I mean, I think a lot of people don't talk about it 'cause maybe it's too woo, but. [00:42:00] I think a, a majority of brilliant science discoveries, artwork, innovate, like tech innovations are coming through people's dreams.

Um, 'cause I mean, that's where I get my crazy creative, you know, world shaking innovations. Right. So I imagine other people are too. I, I get it. How maybe people don't wanna talk about it too much. Yeah. But, um, but like, but some people have, right? Like Larry Page, the Google. Um, algorithm came through a dream.

He's very, he's been very open about that. Yeah. Um, a lot of the scientific discoveries, like we have insulin because of a dream. That's amazing. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's changed the world. Um, you know, the periodic table came through someone's dream. A lot of artists and authors have had full books come through in dreams.

Like this is very, very common. Um, so. And I, and I don't think most of these people had an intentional dream work practice. So just [00:43:00] like imagine what would be possible if you were, you know, all the brilliant scientists, you know, tech people out there discovering new things. Imagine like if these people adopted an intentional dreaming practice, knew how to speak dream language, imagine what could come through.

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. Yeah. And then being able to tap into a collective group of dreamers. 

Guest: Well, and that's, and see that's the next amazing piece because. Again, in ancient times, yes, people had individual dream practices, but it was mostly done in groups. And, um, I'll give one example. So in ancient Greece, um, when they were having trouble trying to figure out how to govern and organize people and government, um, they took the problem to dreams.

So there were people dreaming at these oracular temples in, in Greece and interpreting the dreams. Working through what was coming through, and this is how democracy [00:44:00] was formed. Wow. Like literally the dominant style of government in our world came through group dreaming. 

Kathryn Thompson: Wow. 

Guest: I mean, right. Wow. So like, look at where we are in our time right now.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Guest: And uh, we could use some new ways of relating with one another, new ways of seeing who we are and what our place is in the world. Right. Totally. So why not? Why not try group dreaming? Right? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And again, again, nothing wrong with analytical, logical, what you do in your day-to-day habits, whatever processes, schedules, timing, whatever you want to do, but.

You said this was like, you spend literally 8, 6, 8, 10 hours sleeping. I don't know how, what your sleep pattern is, but I'm someone who needs a lot of sleep, so like, let's [00:45:00] just say eight hours a night sleeping, there's, you know, there's, if you just integrated, like understanding your dreams or, or just changing the relationship with your dreams, you're not.

Adding another habit stack or something in your day-to-day life. It's not something more you're adding, you're just learning how to have a different relationship with what you're already doing. 

Guest: Yeah, I mean, that's why I'm still doing it. I've had, I've been intentionally dreaming pretty much every night for five years.

I have like a stack, you know, of Dream Journals. Um, and I'm still working with dreams from years ago and like the, I mean, I'm, you know, I'm busy. I'm business owner, I'm mom, I have two teenage kids. Like I have a husband, I have a household. I have other things I like to do in my life. Um, so that's why it's.

Stuck is because it's so easy. It's like I'm already doing the work. I just, the only question is how, what am I doing with the information coming through? Um, yeah. [00:46:00] It's, I mean, and that's, again, I think this is why it's, it's such a natural thing to get into because as humans, this is what we have done, right.

As humans, like in long time, we have treated our dreams as equal information to what comes through in our daily life. That's not crazy. That's just balanced. Yeah. Right, right. Yeah. And, um. It's not a question of either or with analytical mind or perceptive mind, that's they are not at odds. They are not in competition.

This is, it's called balance. Yeah. So doing both. So just because you can go into a deep meditation doesn't mean that. You are not, you know, a brilliant scientist. Like it's totally, it's totally, in fact, again, I would argue that the most brilliant scientists out there are receiving information from, if not the dream realm, definitely from the unimaginable realm.

I mean, Einstein talks about it all the time. He talks about the, the [00:47:00] supreme importance of imagination. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, 

Guest: right. It's like anything is possible. 

Kathryn Thompson: DaVinci was the same, right. Curiosity. The only, like he says, I, I'm not an, I'm not an artist. I just was curious about life that, and so I was curious about everything and then I was able to paint really well because I understood the way light hit bodies and Right.

But it was because he was like, just curious about that. Um, I was listening to a podcast today. The DI CEO with Brene Brown, and she was talking about Steve Jobs and she was saying, they were talking about why leaders are traditionally so successful and it's be not because they know, they have the certainty, the, the productivity, the ambition, whatever she was saying.

A lot of them. Red philosophy and art and they were, you know, [00:48:00] very curious and creative. And they were talking about Steve Jobs and how someone said, oh, your kids must be so excited that the new iPad's out. And he said, my kids don't have iPads. And then when someone was doing his biography and following his family around, they said, no, there was no tech at the table, nothing.

They just talked about art and philosophy and spirituality and all of the things. And it's so interesting that. I think there's this outwardly perception, this front that we put on of like, well, I'll be taken seriously if I, and again, a hundred percent believe in science, so this isn't about either or. 

Guest: A hundred percent.

Yeah. This isn't about either 

Kathryn Thompson: or. This is just about like we, we wear these hats of, well, I'm a scientist and therefore if I talk about imagination and if I talk about meditation and if I talk about dream work, people are gonna think I am. Oh to lunch. And the reality is, is ba it is balance. And that there we would probably be hard pressed to find really great founders [00:49:00] CEOs that aren't using a combination of all of it.

Guest: Yeah, absolutely. No, I, I get it. I mean that, that, um, pressure to conform in the science community is real. Yeah, I get it. Um, and it took me a while to like feel comfortable coming out, talking about both personally, because I'm like, I'm out there on the internet on both spectrums at this point, talking about hardcore science, hardcore like politics, hardcore like research.

Yeah. If you look me up and then you'll see me talking about energy work and Qigong and dream work. But you know, like. For, that's my path. It's so important to me. And if I'm, I have to, I have to talk about both. Um, yeah, and it's still pretty, it's not mainstream yet. You know, I'm sure there's some of my old colleagues who are, you know, think I'm a little crazy or whatever.

Um, but it's, it's interesting that. How [00:50:00] many people actually secretly are, you know, we've all had mystical experiences. We've all had these dreams that are just so, um, that feel so important. And, and then what, what do we do with them? So, um, I think it's really important to, to come out there and, and let people know that it's okay to be a whole human.

Yeah. It's okay to be intuitive. It's okay to use your intuition. Um. But that, you know, that shame around it is real. I know. Um, I live in the, the land of Luther Burbank. I don't know if you know who he is, but he is the, um, was the brilliant botanist who developed pretty much all of the cultivatable crops that we still use.

Like the Burbank potato or ru No Ru potato. Oh yeah. He's from my, he's from my land. He, um, he is experimental garden is down the street from me and he. Was not a trained scientist at the time. It was early 19 hundreds, so [00:51:00] that wasn't totally a required thing, but still there were, you know, academics out there.

Um, and. He was well known to, to talk to plants and he would have, you know, hundreds, thousands of different plants in a row. And he would go through and he would, he would know which ones were going to produce the, the crops that were desirable for humans and which ones weren't. And he just, he had this instinct and he didn't really keep records so much.

However, again, literally the food we eat today was pretty much all cultivate, you know, developed. The seed bank was cultivated by Luther Burbank and he was, um, he was really, really criticized. Wow. He, he, when he was alive, people were terrible to him. Right. They were really like putting him down for not being scientific.

Um, but like the proof is in the pudding, right? So it's this tricky situation that I imagine a lot of scientists, you know, currently are still going through with, [00:52:00] um, you know, using your own intuition and. Also not wanting to, you know, wanting to have something, you know, scientific method to back it up.

It's, it's tricky. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. Um, there was a woman who was on the diary of COI find myself listening to that more and more these days because he brings on such diverse guests and he was talking about this today of like, you know, he is, he brings on every type of guest with every type of belief and Sure.

Checking credibility and stuff like that. It's not just, um, not conspiracy theory and stuff like that. He's backing up what they're saying, da, da, all that sort of stuff. But, but it's very nuanced 'cause it's like he, he does bring on these, all these diverse thinkers, but this woman had lost her husband. Um.

Dr. Tara Schwartz, I think her name might be, I could be getting this wrong. She just, uh, published the book called The Signs, but she's a neuroscientist by trade and very much in the [00:53:00] science realm of things. And then she lost her husband, and then she started getting these crazy signs from him that they, she was like, there's no way.

It's not him. And one night she woke up and he, she was like, I saw him literally standing at the foot of my bed like I was awake. And I saw him standing there and then I just keep asking 'em for these signs and I get these like crazy signs that are not poss like, just wouldn't be possible. And she goes, my colleagues or some of my colleagues now would think I am crazy, like, would diagnose me as absolutely crazy.

And so, um, but she's like, I can't not see what I'm seeing now. And it's just. Again, sort of crazy in a lot of ways 'cause she's merging this two, these two worlds and she's like, I'm risking so much and just doing this, but I want people to know. What I'm experiencing. And she's tested a bunch of things. Of course, she's a scientist, right?

So she's like, I've read the literature, I've tested it, I've talked to many people. So when she published this [00:54:00] book, it wasn't just her talking about the signs she saw, but like hadn't had talked to like many, many, many, many other people and read a ton of literature on it, but um, to sort of back herself up.

But it's just interesting 'cause we're starting to see more and more, I think, of these conversations that similar to kind of what we're having. This very analytical, scientific, which is beautiful, wonderful, amazing. And then also this whole human being side of things of like, there is this instinct and intuitive and connected beyond ourselves.

And we, there's so much we don't know. There's so much out there that consciousness, that limitlessness that we just don't even know, and the curiosity and imagination of what's possible and what we can tap into is. To me, just such a beautiful thing. 

Guest: Yeah. The realm of what our society thinks is normal, is very, very small.

And yes, we just have no idea the, [00:55:00] the, the full extent of the creativity and ingenuity that humans can have. We, we really have no idea. And I think this stuff is coming out more. Um, yeah, because it has to. 'cause we need it. Yeah. And I'm not, again, I'm not the only one who is feeling really called to bridge both, to stand for both.

Um, yeah, because we, we, we really, we need our intuition back. Yeah. It's so important. We need to listen to our dreams. We need to become whole people. We need to, um, we need to activate our curiosity, the questions, right. Um, yeah. So that we can receive the answers that we need. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. So. Beautiful. Is there anything else that you wanted to, to share with our listeners today that we might not have touched on or, um, a question you wish, wish I would've asked you but I didn't.

Guest: Oh my, I think, I really think we've, we got it, Catherine. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could [00:56:00] talk to you for hours about this, but it's just, um, it's been such a pleasure. I'm so glad that I listened to my intuition and decided to work with you, and I'm real also really glad that I trusted you. Yeah, it's been a beautiful partnership and I really appreciate it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I did get my ROI, I really did. If you look at all the assets I have, you know, both in money and you know, my email list, which is awesome now, and all of the sales funnels and da, da, da, like. I did. So, yeah. See, logical Mind is happy. Yeah. Yeah. Perceptive Mind is happy. Right? I feel like a new person.

I've been reborn, like I have all these new capabilities. I'm Yeah. Got past that block, the block that I couldn't figure it out. And that's why I came to, I didn't, I, I knew something was blocking me and I got past it, so Yeah. There'll be more though. There'll be more. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yes. Yeah. It's been, yeah, it's been such a pleasure to work with you and just, um, the synergy, right?

I think when, when you trust, [00:57:00] um, and you're aligned and all of that, there's that synergy I think that happens. That, again, I think the best laid plan and the best strategy and the best tactics, like without that synergy and that trust. Yeah. And you doing that internal work, like knowing it's, spotting it, seeing it, and then also bringing some of the difficulties and challenges to the table beyond just the execution and implementation of things, right?

Like, all man is happening, is this normal, you know, being able to bring that to the table and not sit in that and, and be able to ask for help when needed, I think is just, um, yeah. It, it, it does really produce. Epic results, and I think it's just a starting point for you. 

Guest: Yep. I agree. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. Well, where can people find you if they're interested in your dream work, learning from you?

Guest: So my website is into the hum two [00:58:00] M's, so I-N-T-O-T-H-E-H-U-M m.com. Um, I'm also on Substack under at Dream School, so I have long form writing there, and you can also find me on Instagram at. At Mystic Dream School. So those are the best places to find me. Awesome. And there's lots of free offerings. Um, that free masterclass is on demand.

It's so cool. I, again, I hear from people every week that say like, oh my gosh, just listening to that masterclass and my dreams have totally changed. Now I'm dreaming with guides and learning new things, and I had a conversation about an illness. I mean, it's just, it's insane all the. Awesome information that was just waiting to come through for these people and now it can.

So yeah. Anyway. 

Kathryn Thompson: Love it. Love it. And we will link all of those links up in the show notes so that. People can easily access it. But yeah, it's been such a pleasure working with you. I know our time isn't done. I know we're not complete and, and all of that. [00:59:00] We've got so much more to Oh yes. To do. And I'm so excited about that.

But I cannot wait for our listeners to hear this episode because I think they're just gonna be so fascinated with the work that you're doing. Um, and I, yeah, I hope they get as much out of it as I always get out of our conversation. So. 

Guest: Thanks, Catherine. 

Kathryn Thompson: You're welcome. 

intro/outro: Thanks for listening. We'll see you right back here next time.

You can also find us on social media at creatively owned and online@creativelyowned.com. Until next time, keep showing up as your authentic self.