Building a Business from the Inside Out and How to Choose Self-Discovery Over Self-Discipline with Kellyn Bechtold

Intro/Outro: [00:00:00] After generating over a million dollars in sales and selling one of her businesses with a single email, your host Kathryn Thompson, takes an unconventional approach to marketing and sales. So if you are ready to tap into a more powerful way to be seen, heard, and a Sought after Entrepreneur in your industry without having to spend endless hours marketing your business and chasing clients, you are in the right place.

Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast is here to help you ditch the cookie cutter one size fits all approach to marketing, and use your unique energy to effortlessly attract the most aligned clients. When you do this, you can spend less time marketing your business and more time doing your soul work and enjoying the richness of your life.

Welcome to Be The Sought After Entrepreneur Podcast, and here's your host, Kathryn Thompson. 

Kathryn Thompson: Hey, hey. I am super stoked ahead of Kellen on the show [00:01:00] today to chat all things creative business, uh, living in true alignment. And without further ado, I'm just gonna pass it over to you, Kellen, so that you can share with my people who you are and what you do, and who you serve.

Guest: Sure. Hey Kathryn, I'm so excited to have this conversation with you today. Every time we get to cross Paths, which first started out with you as, um, my coach in a way, and, uh, being in your selling The Invisible Program, which was two or three years ago, I was trying to think today and how we've just intertwined and you've always been such a, a person who has helped me stay in alignment.

I'm so excited to be here talking with you today. Um, so about me, I am the founder of the Out Beyond, and I'm a creative Entrepreneur coach, and I really help people, mostly solo entrepreneurs, some owners of small businesses as well. Build their business as cheesy as it sounds, from the inside out instead of the outside in.

As in we work through building a business in a way that really reflects who they [00:02:00] are instead of building a business that they think they need to create to match the outside world. Um, I'm a former operations exec. I worked in private equity, I did the whole corporate addiction thing for a while. Uh, but what I did love about that job is the operations system building, you know, creating plans from desires.

And I have taken that into solo entrepreneurship work and really helped these amazing people, artists, astrologers, documentarians, accountants, executive recruiters who have, who have business businesses that they've built from their heart, uh, helping them build these systems for themselves. That helps them not abandon themselves in the creation of their business.

So that is what I do. I mostly work, um, I only work one-on-one right now and things are getting exciting for a big launch I have coming this fall. So that's where I am, what I've been up to, and uh, what goes on out in the out beyond, 

Kathryn Thompson: I love [00:03:00] it. And how did you come to this work? What led you here? 

Guest: Yeah, so I left my corporate job finally for like the fifth time.

I kept, I kept going in and trying it back on and leaving and trying it back on and leaving as a chief of staff as head of operations. I left my corporate job for the final time three years ago in, uh, in 2022. And. One of my first jobs was working as a career at a career transition firm. I was just the office manager, worked my way up to head of client service.

It was all of these executives who were the chief marketing officer, Pepsi, all these super high level I, using air quotes, you know, executives who were going through career transitions. I was 21, 22 at the time. What I noticed was that the questions they were asking themselves were the same questions that my colleagues and friends who were graduating college were asking themselves, which is, who am I?

What do I wanna do in the world? [00:04:00] All of us in our twenties, we thought if I were making $8 million a year million, none of these questions would be open anymore. But that wasn't the case, you know? Yeah. Um, I was shocked to find out that a 55-year-old who just got an eight, I remember this moment, I found out that they got an $8 million severance package for being bad at their job, and, and this man was in so much stress and I thought, wow.

Money's not gonna be the thing to do it, huh? Yeah. And however, I I, my bosses were in their sixties. They had all been CEOs themselves, and I, I thought I needed to go out and get more education before I could be a coach, an experience before I could be a coach myself on the side. However, as I was walking up the corporate ladder, I was coaching people in career transition, and I always had this side dream of like, I wanna help people make transitions in their career, which I did for a while, and I loved it.[00:05:00] 

I even hired you and joined your Selling Invisible program three years ago thinking, I do this other thing. The way I help people get new jobs is something I don't know how to talk about. And it turns out my favorite clients in that mix were the people who were leaving jobs and building businesses.

Yeah, at the time I had a limiting belief that there weren't enough people, uh, or that I wasn't far enough along in my career to, to help those, those folks. And so I signed up for your program. I start into the work of who are you? What are you doing? What do you wanna offer? And I think I had an identity crisis or something.

I don't know. Would you like to explain from your point of view, when you met me in that moment, what it seemed like? And I'm perfectly happy with you pointing out the things that were all outta whack. 'cause I think they were. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And I think when you came in, and I see this with a lot of people that come in to working with me, [00:06:00] is they come in with an idea of maybe what they want, how they want to create it.

They don't know how to articulate it. And then they get into my world and they do have, let's call it an identity crisis or an unraveling because. They start to really ask themselves the true questions of who they are, what do they want to do? And if you can truly build this in a way that you want to, what does that look like?

And often, for many people, they haven't seen it out in the world, and people are living parts of that authenticity and alignment, meaning they either have the business model, the offerings down, but maybe the way in which they're expressing online doesn't align, right? There's parts or the pricing is in alignment, or the message they're putting out doesn't feel like an alignment.

All of the things, there's these, this internal tension, they don't know how to merge all the parts of who they are. The creative and the analytical, the spiritual and the scientific. They [00:07:00] don't know how to merge that. And so when you came in, I think there was this probably identity crisis of like, I'm either not further along, not recognizing your true gifts and what you're truly capable of.

And as a coach is reflecting sort of back, and also I think resistance with the system. So a lot of things I see with people, and I think I saw that with you, is like, I don't know if I wanna build a funnel. I don't, I don't really wanna do this. And it was like, you don't have to. But usually in our resistance, I say it's a portal to our alignment, but I also think that as a, if we're analytical and we are critical thinkers, that criticalness can stop us in our tracks.

Meaning I don't wanna build a funnel and then we hyperfocus on not wanting to build a funnel. And then it's like, well, let's not build a funnel. What would you build? A big conversation I have with clients is, I hate marketing. And I said, well, let's name it something else, or let's just take marketing off the table.

And then they're like, [00:08:00] oh wow. And I think when we look at the funnel or we look at the thing and we're resisting it, we can get hyperfocused on that. I also truly believe. For you particularly, but also I think everybody that comes in my world is you're on this evolutionary path and we live in such a world that's quick fix, fast cash speed, we optimize for speed, speed, speed, speed.

And we're in that environment. And when we're going through our own evolution, that's on our own timeline. That might not be done in two months, three months, six months, which most programs are. It's tough. And I think you were just on a natural evolution of who you were and needed to become and not because you weren't ready to coach and mentor.

That's bs. If my 

Guest: coaching was going, was going very well, that that wasn't the, yes, that was the issue. The issue. Mm-hmm. 

Kathryn Thompson: Your soul was asking you to evolve and Yeah, I think, I think that's not a timeline. You can't put that on a timeline. 

Guest: Yeah. I think it was an interesting [00:09:00] time where I was looking at all the steps and it's like sort of like what I see my clients go through.

They were coming to me for getting a new job and I'm like, well, you know, this. Steps for getting a new job. We all do some form of networking, some form of resume, some form of searching for it. Trying to be connected, like how to get a job is like eight steps that everyone knows starting at like age 17.

Right. And there are nuances and things in your program that are super helpful that I did not know backend stuff, but the overall, how do you create a funnel? Like I knew that stuff somewhat and I was looking at the, the steps and I was like, I don't wanna do it here either. Yeah. I thought I needed accountability.

I thought I needed someone to teach me how to do it. And I showed up and I was like, eh, I don't, I don't want to do these things. And instead of what I've always done in my life, which is discipline myself Yeah. Through [00:10:00] steps. I turned somewhat with your permission, somewhat with just how a, a lot of inner work and, and.

Patience with myself. I said, I'm not going to discipline myself into this. I'm going to look into myself and I, what I call self-discovery instead of self-discipline. Yeah. And I just decided I'm not doing it if I don't want to. Yeah. And I'm going to see if I can build a business anyway. Yeah. And so far so good.

Yeah. Yeah. So far so good. Not that the last three years haven't been hard, but I think when I reached out, when, when we connected about me coming on the podcast, because you talk a lot about timing and trusting yourself. I don't hear many stories of an Entrepreneur coming on a podcast and saying, I spent three years resting.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Guest: And I think it's so important. Yeah, maybe [00:11:00] just for me, and maybe just for me to share this story with you in this moment, but I feel deeply in my bones. It's so important that I rested for three years. And so I don't know if I can tie all of that into a perfect, into a perfect ribbon. But it certainly was.

We met, three years ago, I decided I was gonna build a funder for this career, career coaching business. I didn't want to. Yeah. And instead of saying something's wrong with me, I said, what do I wanna do instead? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And the rest piece, and this comes back to sort of the divine timing and everybody's timeline, which is why when I work with people, I, I am not forcing the timeline, which I think a lot of coaches, accountability coaches, which I am not ancc account accountability coach.

I'm not gonna hold you accountable. To anything that you don't want to be accountable to. But I also believe in responsibility and taking sovereign responsibility of your life. That doesn't mean that [00:12:00] because I might put a timeline on something, a six month program or whatever, that I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna hold you accountable to some artificial timeline that's gonna measure what success, the success in you completing a program, the success in you making money.

So I can screenshot and share it. Like that's all bullshit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because to me it's your timeline. And so I'm like, you wanna take three years to do this? Take three years. You want to take two years, take two years. Really? What is it? You're on your timeline, you're on your growth path, and I'm not you and you're not me.

And our paths look different. And that, I think that's a key piece of all of it because I think, I know I have invested in programs and self dissembling myself through it. And did the thing that my coach at the time was telling me post five days, seven days a week, selling every post, selling every story.

I did it for 12 months, [00:13:00] I made one sale. Mm-hmm. I stopped doing that and my business took off. That's just living proof of my example. Your example, like things are going great and I didn't follow the protocol of what quote unquote, an online business should look like or whatever. 

Guest: Yeah. And it's so in, I can feel the fear in my body.

It still come up when you said I posted five to seven times a week, I always sold, I did all of that, which doesn't scare my body. I mean, I start to feel a little tight. Uh, I start to feel a little resistance. But when you said, and I only sold one. Yeah. My body goes, or not my body. My, my thought, my brain goes, yeah.

Like total fear. Response. Even though I've spent three years returning to self, I still have the knee jerk reaction that says to me, essentially, truthfully, the most truthful thing I can say is a part of me [00:14:00] says, you've gotta be kidding me, Kel. You think you can sit here and be so lazy? She did all of that consistency, and you think you're gonna be successful by not doing all of those things She did.

Yeah. Like there is the, all of these voices that still, they still come to the playground. Totally. But instead of saying, I need to be, then I need to post 10 to 15 times. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Guest: If that's not enough, what's gonna be enough? Yeah. I say, Ooh, I feel the anxiety. What did she say? Worked again. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Guest: What did she say that worked?

Kathryn Thompson: Not doing the shit, 

Guest: not doing the shit 

Kathryn Thompson: that we're told. We have to, to be successful. And I'm living proof that even though I followed and self-discipline myself to following that to a rigid TI did not [00:15:00] receive the success. And success for me isn't just the money and the sales, it was also creative expression, my energy and time talking about what I really want to talk about, going to the depth of things with people, not just selling every day in my stories.

Like DM me the word blank if you wanna sign up. Like I got tired of my own voice, but I also was like on a creative, deep transformational level, this is not the way in which I want to express myself either. 

Guest: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's a, it's a game of just like trust. And part where I'm at too is I'm three years from pivoting.

I briefly started to work with a partner on where I got a little bit out of my alignment in a, in a beautiful way. It was all fine to try that out, but ultimately it was just a reminder of what I'm actually meant to do. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. 

Guest: And I just came up [00:16:00] with the idea downloaded to me for calling my business the out Beyond on March 7th of this year.

Yeah. And I've only had, only taking that word out, I've had five people join my pilot program. Amazing. Of how I'm coaching now of how I'm working as a creative Entrepreneur coach now as I am entering in relationships with clients, not through a package, not through 10 sessions, not through follow this system through me saying.

You know how you hire a therapist and you jump in and you go until you don't need to go anymore, until maybe a couple years down the road. Then you do. Yeah. Like, that is what I wanted, and I thought everything was showing me that I, I couldn't, I didn't have enough experience. I would never find people, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Yeah. And what I wanted was to not create a package. What I wanted was to not sell Instagram ads [00:17:00] Right now, what I wanted was not to do any of it, and what do I wanna do instead? Apparently for about two and a half years, I wanted to sit in fear that what I wanted to do instead was not gonna work. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah.

Guest: More or less. 

Kathryn Thompson: And the fear of it, I wanna dive into the, like, there's not enough people that will want this because I think that, I know I have been at that threshold in my business and my evolution where maybe I've outgrown something I've built. Whether it be successful or not successful, I've outgrown it.

And then I, my, my voice in my head is the thing I envision, there's a block and a resistance. It's almost energetic, like my, it's my ego brain for sure, but I almost feel like I'm bumping up against a wall of like, there aren't enough people out here, or who's gonna pay me for that? Or, how do I articulate this?

Hey, do you just want to come play in this playground with me and I will support you [00:18:00] in unraveling and taking away the, a lot of the non-essentials that I think people focus on in business life, whatever that they think they need to do in order to be successful, they layer it with strategy tactic, strategy tactic.

And I'm like, how about we just remove all of that and strip that all away and what is actually necessary and needed? Which is a lot less than I think most of us realize. But I go, who will pay for that? There's not enough people. Those are the, that's my brain. And so, and you mentioned it, so how did you work through that fear?

Guest: I have crossed so many of the financial boundaries in which I thought I would cease to exist on this planet. Yeah. Which was, I had this much money in my investment account, I had this much money in my bank account. And if it ever gets below that, I, I can remember having, I think it's so important, it is even hard for me to override not using numbers, but it's so [00:19:00] important that we use actual numbers.

I can remember thinking if my bank account gets below $50,000, I am ill-equipped. I'm in danger, I'm irresponsible. All of the words, and that was my made up number at the time. Yeah. Was $50,000. If I have less than $50,000, I'm going to end up under a bridge alone. Yeah. And I don't have $50,000 in my bank account right now.

I have way, I prob, I maybe have about $5,000 in my bank account right now. And part of my brain right now is like, what business coach is gonna wanna hire you to dah, dah, dah. And I, or what business person is gonna wanna hire you? A coach who says they have less than $5,000 in the bank. And I think my client, my client is going to realize that I write checks to myself in my own time and in my [00:20:00] own ownership of my mind.

And that is worth more money than I ever made in a corporate boardroom. Mm-hmm. I have this little notebook beside my desk when sometimes I start to get a little bit down on myself about not having enough money, quote, unquote enough. That is not true. I have food, I have shelter, I have people I love. I'm going to Vegas next week to write my book by myself in Vegas because where else does one go to have a self writing retreat?

But Vegas. But we can talk about that another time. Um, the notebook beside my bed is I, when I start to feel fear around money, I write a little mini check to myself in my notebook that says, not having to set your alarm tomorrow, what would I have paid myself four years ago to not get up and set my alarm and hurry and rush and shower and drink that protein shake, or maybe just coffee until 2:00 PM You know, I [00:21:00] would've written myself a check for like $3,500.

I would've written a check for $3,500 if I didn't have to go do that. Yeah. I've made like $1.75 million in cashing time, energy, peace. Yes. To myself. So yeah, my bank account doesn't look like it used to, but my fulfillment, wellbeing, and wellbeing and satisfaction is beyond what I ever made before. And my client is not the person who says, well, I'm not hiring a business coach who hasn't made a million dollars in sales.

Okay. Yeah. And how do I overcome the fear of there aren't enough people who want this? Well, Catherine, I have chosen to only do work on things that I would do for free because I deeply, deeply, [00:22:00] deeply want to.

So if no one pays me for the book I'm writing, okay. If no one buys this exact service, I want to offer the out beyond right now. Okay. What I have wanted to do for the last six months is wake up and work on creating it. Oh, and by the way, five people have already taken it, so it seems unlikely that no one's gonna wanna step in here.

Yeah. But okay. Okay. I'm gonna be okay. I'm gonna be okay. It's gonna be okay. 

Kathryn Thompson: Which is such a key takeaway for everybody listening, because I think, again, or at least my observation and what I've seen in the online space particularly, is there was this like big boom of like, you can start an online business.

You can make all this money, you can do all these things. And I think when we. Have this [00:23:00] dysregulated system around money, and there's a fear around it. And we also think that money somehow is gonna give us the freedom that, quote unquote, that we want. And we're chasing that. It's easy to get wrapped up in, I'm gonna create the thing to make money rather than create the thing because that thing's gonna give me the freedom I make.

You know, a million dollars, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Rather than creating the thing that you're deeply, deeply fulfilled in creating. And the idea is, I don't care if people buy it or not, because I'm so deeply fulfilled in creating it, and I know it's gonna help people. There's a very different energy.

And if we look at successful entrepreneurs, you probably can find a thread of that in what they say in that, yes ma'am said, it's not about the money, it's not about the da da. I did this because I loved it. And then they took off and their business took off. Right? And. And you said at the beginning the $8 million guy was nervous.

Wreck [00:24:00] it. Money, doesn't it? Money is not the def, the definition here. 

Guest: I wish it were. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. I wish it was sexy. 

Guest: I wish it, I wish it were that easy because you and I could go and do you know like what you did with your wine store, with what you, we could go build, I could go back to the private equity world Yeah.

And make money. But that is clearly not, not it, but when I can feel satisfaction because I've told the truth to myself and I've told the truth to, and, and frankly, I've had to not say much about my business since March. Yeah. Because I needed to get to the point that I was fully ready to tell the truth.

And it is okay that I wasn't like ding out beyond idea ding now, now I'm ready to go to my Instagram stories. Now I'm ready to start the newsletter. Now I'm ready. Like. I have needed the last three years to be [00:25:00] okay with the fact that somebody's gonna hate it. Yeah. You've been along for this, this journey with me.

Yeah. Yeah. I was on reality television show in America. I was on Survivor CBS, and I was not the America's sweetheart. We'll, we'll call it that. And now granted, there are fans who were lovely, but you don't remember that stuff some of the time, you know? And so I think I've had this fear of, I just always was worried about going back out into the world again and was trying to build up all this armor for whatever way I did it.

And I went into the whole three years ago and was like, I am not coming out until I am no longer worried about who will buy instead of who am I? Yeah.

I'm going to talk about who I am without worrying about who's gonna buy. Me. And Alex Harrow, who's one of my favorite authors, says, I don't make art for my enemies. Yeah.[00:26:00] 

Yeah. I do not make art for my enemies. So these are some of the ways in which, and I can be long-winded, um, but these are some of the ways that I have worked through money, fear, will anyone be there at the end? Um, the, all of these things that kept me from building the business I wanted to build 10 years ago.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting, the dream that we have, that we hold, that again, takes time. It's a journey. It's a process. You had a dream 10 years ago. I had a dream when I left corporate 10 years ago. I think it might be eight years. I don't even remember now. Mm-hmm. But when I left corporate. And I've made many missteps along the way.

Many misaligned steps along the way, right? Sure. We grew our wine business and sold a shit ton of wine, close to a million in sales, then sold the thing. [00:27:00] But I was sick in that business, but I was sick in it. And so again, we come back to the whole money bit. It's like a, that's not the thing that's gonna fulfill you for sure.

And or you can make a shit ton of it and still be really sick. It's who? And, and also worry about who's gonna buy from us, who's gonna like us? Who's gonna invest whatever. And I, that's still giving that power away to, to some market. It's still us being a puppet within the system, trying to be what other people want us to be in order to be successful.

But in reality, the success is creating the inner peace. It is creating inner fulfillment. It is being able to speak truth. Show up in that truth. And that's scary. 

Guest: It's really scary. And one way to bypass all of that. Like if you're in a business right now and you're like, I'm gonna do that work. And right now I'm like, I need [00:28:00] money.

And I am servicing clients like you can sometimes hop forward to, at least I can. My clients who need me are missing out while I work through this fear. So go ahead and do it anyway. You're, it was an episode from April, actually, which I, which was like, I made, I delayed for eight months essentially about perfectionism and like, then I'm not speaking to it.

Well, it's a great episode. But, um, one of the ways is to also, like, I, I can't wait till I get this perfect because someone needs me. Yeah. And almost everyone listening, I imagine you have already had some clients and you have been there in that moment where you're like, yes. This is why I do what I do.

This is what matters to me, is to be in service to the people who need my gifts to, to help them, or, and, and so sometimes you can be on the journey of how do I keep returning to self? How do I not give my power away? [00:29:00] And while I don't have it all figured out, I'm gonna move past the worries and the fear because people need what I'm doing 

Kathryn Thompson: and none of us really have it figured out.

Guest: No, no. We don't have it all 

Kathryn Thompson: figured out. Right? It's, I haven't met anyone 

Guest: who does. No, I haven't, I haven't met anyone who does. And, and I think a great example this week is I was just reading Liz Gilbert's, uh, latest memoir. Liz Gilbert was one of my favorite authors. I used to call, eat, pray, love my Bible.

Um. And if you read her memoir, there was a lot of dark stuff happening while some of us in our mid twenties and thirties were looking to Liz Gilbert for a life of freedom because we heard her story, we watched the movie, we thought all of this stuff. And, and there was a lot of, of not freedom happening for Liz and her life at the time, with the being in, with a relationship with an addict, being an addict herself.

Um, and so we don't have to have it all figured out in every [00:30:00] lane to help people in the lane that we already have figured out. Yeah. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. I remember reading that book. I know exactly where I was. I was in the tub in a place in Canada. I had moved to be with a boyfriend who was horrible. And I remember sitting and reading that book in the bathtub being like, what is my life like?

What? Right. And it's like, it was the like. Bible in a way being like, I am getting out. I, I'm not gonna spend months, years crying on a bathroom floor, questioning this. Like I'm out. And then within four months I had moved back to Saskatchewan because I was like, no. So it was this book of freedom for a lot of women.

Guest: Yeah, I think so. And interesting now that now we look back and she said herself in the Oprah interview, like I was just going from codependent to [00:31:00] codependent to literally finally another codependent relationship. She's like, everyone took it as this li Liberation. And I was with three men in a two hour movie.

Yeah. Three different relationships. And it's like, yeah, but it still helps me leave my first husband. Yeah. It still helped me find my freedom there. Even though she can look back on it and be like, that was part of my pathology. Yeah. Of codependency. Yeah. And I'm like, wait, what? And it's just been such a lesson for me in the parts of me that say, I need to have made a million dollars.

I need to have the perfect website. I need to have the perfect social media strategy. I need to have the perfect funnel. I need to have dah, dah, dah. I need to have it all figured out before I can go and be of service. Well, apparently not. Oh, and by the way, it's impossible. So wouldn't it be it? It's really not.

It's really kind of funny for us to think that we could control and have it all together. Right, right. 

Kathryn Thompson: And also control the perception of how people [00:32:00] receive us, which is huge because she wrote that book, telling her story. She looks at that story as I was completely codependent and bouncing from codependency to codependency, addiction, you name it.

And a whole generation of women were looking at it as liberation. We can't control how people will perceive and receive our message. We're just designed to share it and, and yes, it might be a voice of liberation, it might be a voice of a story, of unraveling, whatever it is, that truth that you speak. She was just writing her truth, just like she just wrote her truth for a memoir.

And what people take away from it, they'll take away from it. And I think it will depend on where people are at in their journey. And so really all you can be is a vessel of truth, and then the rest is not up to you. And I think control and perfectionism go hand in hand of like, I need [00:33:00] to control the narrative.

I need to control the message. I need to control the thing. In reality, it's like if I just speak my truth, I'm just the vessel of that truth and how my people will receive that in a way that they need to receive it and they will be transformed by it. 

Guest: And the people who aren't, it's not for, the more truth you can put out into it, the more quickly the people are gonna step out of line that are going to waste your time.

Kathryn Thompson: Yes, yes. Yeah. Which 

Guest: is, I say all the time to clients, getting people to say no earlier is the name of this game. Totally. I want people who are potentially listening to this who are like, well, I don't want to hire, I can't hire a coach who hasn't made a million dollars in revenue. Cool. Oh, amazing. Now, I don't have you on my calendar to like suss this out later.

Like Yeah. The, getting to the most clear, most honest thing you can say. First of all, it feels a little rare. I don't know if it's me and you and our human [00:34:00] design and or like you and I, we're pretty allergic to, to what we perceive as fakeness. Yeah. I dunno. You know, we're truth tellers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not sure if we're the.

Like the average Jane. Yeah. And that you and I are pretty allergic to it, but uh, yeah, the, the closer you get to your truth, the faster it will be to get your yeses and it does not feel that way when you're trying to build at the beginning or ever really. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And I was just reading an email today from a guy who had studied this case study basically, and it was, um, he, this company had increased their prices by, I dunno, 20 or 30% or something ridiculous.

And he ended up losing 18% of his clientele. And on the surface he might look at that and go, holy shit, that was a dumb move. But his tickets, like, his complaint tickets went down by 42%. So they spent a [00:35:00] hell of a lot less time dealing with client complaints, meaning their clients weren't complaining as much, meaning their clients were happy and he ended up making.

I don't know, like 236% more than what he was making or something ridiculous. And I think, again, this goes down to removing and cutting and qualifying out. 'cause I think as a society, we think we just need to add more. I need to have the mm-hmm polish this and I need to have this strategy and I need to have this thing.

I need to be on YouTube, TikTok, Instagram, all the places. And in reality, it's cutting the non-essentials and also staying true to who you are. That particular company knew they needed to raise their prices if they wanted to continue to develop the service and the delivery in a way that was true to who they were.

And they had to risk losing people along the way, which is scary, but. There also is huge possibility on the other side of it. And if you're in [00:36:00] transformational work, there's nothing worse than working with someone who's misaligned because it's your energy and time. It's not just a product they're buying like wine or toothbrush or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. Energetic exchange. And if it's misaligned, it's, I say far more depleting than a low bank account. Mm-hmm. Because you're having to navigate that. 

Guest: Yeah. It's really it. It is. Especially at the beginning, it's hard to not say yes to everyone or to try not, you know, when you're writing your website copy and trying to say, oh, I only work, it always feels like when people say the the niche down thing, like, okay, sure, but just don't say things you don't wanna do.

Yeah. And it sounds easy and it is hard. It is hard. I've spent, I've been spending three years consistently returning to this. I do not want to do it. Yeah. And then what everyone inevitably says like, well, I'm never gonna wanna pay taxes. I'm never gonna wanna da, da, da da, I'm [00:37:00] never gonna wanna da da. And I just say, okay, that's all right.

I'm gonna try and see. It. Turns out one day I woke up and I was like, I'm gonna go to this coffee shop and I'm just gonna knock out my taxes today. Like yeah. Had I been sort of slightly procrastinating it and was it on my mind a little bit. Yeah. But I was like, I, I'll get it done. I know I will do it when I'm ready to do it.

And even these like boring things. Yeah. Sometimes they just pop up. And so trusting that your desire is going to lead you what really to, what really needs, needs to be done for your business. What else do we have? Intuition, desire. Yeah. Overriding our intuition and desire with someone else's research is not the way to success.

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. Totally. And the values that we have and, and our definition of success and what I mean, what we desire, which I think a lot of people put on the hat, and I've done it where I'm putting on the hat thinking [00:38:00] like I want that and that I, and that I try it. Classic six line acts like a three line for most of our lives in human design.

You know, anything about human design, I feel more like a three line half the time where I'm just like, hat on? Nope. Hat on. Nope. Just trying on all the things because technically based on the system by 50 I'll have figured it out. How old are you? 40. I'll be 45 next month. 

Guest: Okay. 

Kathryn Thompson: In October. Yeah. 

Guest: All right.

Do you, how do you feel about that? Like. 

Kathryn Thompson: Turning 45 or like, 

Guest: well, about the whole like being a six, which means that once you're 50, it's a certain level. Like what is it? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, I see. Taking 

Guest: a deep breath. 

Kathryn Thompson: You know when I was, when I turned 40 and I heard that, I remember thinking, you've got to be kidding me.

I have to wait till 50 to do shit. No, I get it now at 44. There's things that have clicked in the last couple months where I'm like, oh, I, I see it. I see now [00:39:00] what the whole big picture sort of looks like. It doesn't mean you can't achieve things. Obviously throughout your years you will. The point is that you achieve, the point is that you fail.

The point is that you try on all the things, and for me, I can feel that more and more is clicking about life, about who I am, about what I want to do, what I'm here to really do, and I've said it my whole life. You know, we're trained to graduate high school, go get a degree, get a job. And I see nieces and nephews that are getting into that, and I am like, I don't even know what I wanna do at 44 yet, like I do.

But it's a joke of like, I'm just in experimenting mode and observing and figuring out, like yeah. All the things. So now I feel a lot better about the idea, like I'm not just sitting here waiting, I'm not, but I'm also, I'm seeing things a lot more clearly, I think at 45. Yeah. I 

Guest: [00:40:00] wondered if the, if you were, if it was like you were starting to see the light in the ca, like if, if their orb is glowing.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, 

Guest: yeah, 

Kathryn Thompson: yeah, yeah, yeah. There's de definitely, um, lots clicking and I feel like in the last year for sure, I've sunk more and more into who I am and what. Like really honoring, like who I am, the core gifts of what I bring, the depth that I bring to things, the intensity that I bring to things, which, like I said in a marketing world, is very reductionist, very surface level, quick fist, fast cash, optimized for speed metrics, all the things which are fine.

We need to understand our numbers and stuff in business, but it is, there's a depth piece that I can drill down to layers that most people can't, don't, don't go there because it's not how they're wired. It doesn't make me better or worse than anybody, but it's just things are making [00:41:00] sense. I'm like, oh, okay.

I see myself a lot more clearly now. Yeah. 

Guest: Really, one of the things that I think we have in common is that we've used human design astrology. I would say way finding, which is Martha Beck's, um, like Return living through integrity. Um, my training that I had there, uh, Enneagram other folks use your own quiz, um, on your website on creatively owned.

What has looking at external assessments like done for you in the process? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, love that question. 'cause I just had this recently from somebody who was asking about astrology and whether, what I used whole signs versus side reel versus, you know, I, I don't resonate with whole side, I resonate with side reel and what's right [00:42:00] or what's wrong is kind of what the question was.

Hmm. And I always look at the system. Through the lens of contemplation, rather than I'm a four six manifesting generator and this is how I'm supposed to be, and I'm a Scorpio rising and this is how I'm supposed to be. I actually take the signs, I take the system and I contemplate it and I discover how it resonates with me.

And if something doesn't resonate with me, then I just quickly detach and let it go. I don't get fixed on it of like, well, I can't be a Manny gen or because I don't resonate with this component, or I can't be a Scorpio Reds. 'cause I don't. I don't look at it from that. I look at it as like, okay, what's a Scorpio rising?

And I contemplate that and then I look at my life and go, how does that fit with my life? And also have been studying it for five, six years now. Human design, gene keys, astrology, now Asher Cartography. I [00:43:00] just went back into the Jean Keys this week and two of my spheres in the sphere, in the triangle of prosperity.

One sphere is my culture. It's how I fit into the fabric of the world. I have read that sphere. I used to fall asleep in reading his book 'cause it was so dense. My brain wasn't ready for the transformation. I read it this week and I was like, oh shit. So much. Makes sense. So much makes sense. So my culture sphere is exhaustion, which burnout, exhaustion has been something, a storyline of my whole career and resolve is like the highest higher expression of it.

And divine will, which is not needing to push and force and hustle. And I was like, oh, I get it now. But I, and I'm simplifying it, but it just didn't click for me. It just was not [00:44:00] clicking. And then my prosperity sphere is 46.1, which is all around embodiment and connected to the body. And my health is distraction.

Where am I distracting myself? And that's a huge, and patience is a big part of that, like being patient with the process and the journey, which as a mangen, I'm, I can be very impatient. 

Guest: Yeah. It's like, you know, what is the, what is the karmic inappropriateness to have a mangen with, uh, the needing to slow down with Yes.

The don't push things up A hill combination. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yes. Which is why I think people with systems, back to sort of your question, I think they, they, they look at that and they go, I don't fit, or it doesn't make sense, or it doesn't resonate. And I think like any, does that 

Guest: happen for people? I feel like every time I read every single thing, I'm always like, oh my God, that is me.

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. It, you know, it's interesting. I'm such a 

Guest: sucker for all of it, you [00:45:00] know, 

Kathryn Thompson: I think it's rare. I do, I get, I do sometimes get that. Um, but again, I think with the system, it's, it's self-reflection, contemp, contemplation, and then, and trusting my own intuition and instinct with it, rather than giving my power away to the system.

Well, yeah. I 

Guest: think of it as like stepping up to the ice cream counter and there's like, it's giving me 32 flavors. Yeah. And as I'm reading it, I'm gonna try this one. I'm gonna try that one. Oh, that one doesn't, you know, I'm like, okay, this is the, this is the ice cream flavor I'm going to eat out of my human design right now.

And I just really think of it as a place of inspiration. It does. It lights me up and I can feel those things. I'll, I know in your newsletter, which is everyone should sign up for it. Um, you were talking about astrocartography, which is like, where. Uh, I am a, I'm a novice in astrology and as cryptography cartography, but it's like a map of your astrology and like certain things can happen on certain lines.

And you were talking about how you kept going [00:46:00] to Vancouver, right? Or so, or Vancouver Island. Yes. Yeah. And like all of these things started happening for you and then you did your astrocartography over it and you're like, oh yeah. I also, I had gone to Thailand and I just had this one woman like essentially attack me as a person who was like staying in the dorm at this yoga retreat.

It was the strangest freaking thing that has ever happened to me and a stranger, uh, to my face on mine all the time. Uh, trolls come at me, but, um. And it was like some wine, you probably can tell I couldn't, but, uh, couldn't tell you what it was. It was like right over Copen Gun Island where I stayed, which was just like not the place for me to be.

Yeah, I was really, and probably not the place for her to be, you know? Um, anyway, I like to see it. I like to see all of these things, astrocartography, human design, astrology, even Enneagram or StrengthsFinder, more like traditional ones, StrengthFinder, EQ tests, all this stuff. Uh, NBTI, just a [00:47:00] buffet of places to go to see what inspires you and what does feel like looking in the mirror.

Um, and so I just love seeing your journey with that. And also, I need to book a session with you to look through my astrology here. Yeah. I did have one more question for you, if that's okay. Um, ever once a podcast host, always a podcast host, right? Yeah. Sometimes I can't take it, um, in your. Podcast about spending eight months not making any money.

'cause you were working on doing your logo and building the website and all that stuff. I recently made like a $16,000 investment into my brand. Into my brand, and into my website, which is all gonna come out in October. October. And all I can say about why I did that is because I knew that's what I was going to do.

Like I knew. Yeah. [00:48:00] What advice or how can we talk through, because almost every Entrepreneur that I talk to comes to me being like, I need a new website. I need to be more consistent on social media. I need to, I heard your story about wasting time with logos. I've been there as well. And then in some of, in that story, there is a version where me spending the 16 grand is too early in some ways.

Hmm. Yeah. Even though I know it's not, but. In the how do we know what to do is right? And so I was curious about having that conversation with you. And if you and I together could somehow pinpoint how I went from that wouldn't have been the right thing to do when I started in selling the Invisible and now I'm pretty damn sure it's the right thing to do.

And what is your thought on that? 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, my thought, I think when we reduce it to like, there's a right or a wrong or, or you shouldn't spend all your time on this, or you should spend your time on this. There's a couple things that I've learned. Number one is I [00:49:00] have seen a lot of people spend for months and months on months on things that probably are not going to make or break, quote unquote the business at least sort of in the early stages, like naming a program, let's just say like, and I think it depends on where you're at in your journey, what resources you have.

Can you sit for eight months and not get paid? 'cause if you can. Then maybe that is the path. I do think you need a brand. I think you do need visibility online. I do think that, I do think a lot of people overextend themselves in that. What's unique about your astrology is that you have a stellium in the fifth house of creativity.

I can't remember where your Libra is. If you're Libra Rising, potentially. I know. I don't know. And the only reason I say that or where your Libra is in placement, because, because you have such a concentrated energy in the fifth house of creativity, [00:50:00] it does not surprise me that wanting to create a beautiful brand, a beautiful website, cre, expressing your creative expression, I and your mercury's there too.

So I'll just be really, really, uh, clear about that. Your mercury, which is how you communicate and how you express needs to be done creatively. And so you as an individual human being. Might sit with that and go, I want to create the website. I need to have that expression 'cause it's important to me.

Whereas sometimes it's not important to other people. So to me, I think I've probably changed my tune on that in that it's not as black or white, right or wrong. It's like, who are you? And if you are, if you have Libra rising in your chart, it says, 

Guest: I have your ascendant rising sin is cancer, but you Libra rules your fourth house.

It says, does that help? Okay. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. Okay. So you're so cancer rising. So again, um, very, [00:51:00] there is a nurturing, there is a grounded, there is a, cancer's a water sign, but it, there is a, um, like a nurturing, compassionate way of communicating. But you have that your, your mercury's in your fifth house of creativity, um, and I think it's Scorpio and then you have a steal, like I think there's four planets in that.

So. You expressing yourself creatively is key to who you are and how you're received in the world. And so I'm not surprised that you invested in creating a beautiful brand for yourself that's gonna express yourself creatively. That might not be as important to somebody else. 

Guest: It, it blows my mind and it feels so right in my body.

And I'm, and I'm telling you, like, I'm having to have, I'm having to get like a little bit of a front from my parents to get over this hump of making this investment. Yeah. And, but it's just some, I [00:52:00] think this is my biggest leap in trusting that my deepest desire is the way to go, even without, oh, well then I made a hundred thousand dollars and I could pay it, and now it's only 10% of my budget and it's gonna be fun.

Like I am. This is not advice, this is not business advice. I am overriding the mental fear gymnastics by saying, this is what I deeply want. Yeah. I've, I've wanted a better website for as long as I can remember, and I would patchwork it together and I used Upwork and dah, dah dah. I've, I've wanted, yeah. And then when the, the out Beyond idea came to me in March, and you and I were talking back then, uh, more frequently, like we were in coaching sessions then, and something changed.

Yeah. When that download hit me and then [00:53:00] creating this vision of what the experience is for the out beyond became of deep importance. 

Kathryn Thompson: I will also add that curating a brand and not a persona and not some falsified persona, but actually curating a brand and brand experience is gonna be far more important in 2025 and beyond because of ai.

Guest: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. It's 

Kathryn Thompson: literally anybody can create content and put it out there. I mean, you could probably ask the thing to write you a fricking book and it would do it. 

Guest: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And so creative 

Kathryn Thompson: expression, people are craving personal and personalization, but experience or experiential marketing, like actually creating experience where people know this is your brand, this is the out beyond brand, and every touch point is a reflection of that brand and it's unique to [00:54:00] the brand.

Guest: Yeah. Is 

Kathryn Thompson: gonna be so vital. So three years ago, five years ago. Somebody that was just starting out that might not have had the resources. Which is why I think a lot of business coaching, generalized business coaching or a lot of marketing is like that one size fits all. When in reality it's like, well, who are you?

What's your risk tolerance? How much money do you have? What's your resource Like? All of that plays a factor in your decision making process. Where I, I have a Virgo Stellium in the 11th house, and Virgos tend to be very perfectionist driven and they can spin on detail, on detail, on detail. And so that was the eight months of sitting in limbo, like literally refining the logo and literally like literally meticulously doing it.

'cause that is Virgo expression, but can be the shadow expression of a Virgo. And I have huge concentration in the 11th house where my mid-heaven is, which is the value I bring to the world. It's my recognition [00:55:00] through career. And so me spinning in circles was a disservice because. Changing it like a degree of gold to a different type of gold was not gonna make or break it.

And that's what I mean by wasting your time on things that like quite literally won't make or break your sales where you're overthinking and trying to be perfect with it. But curating a brand and creating an experience for people, you're not gonna go wrong with that. If anything, I think we need to be more intentional with it now.

Yeah. More than ever. Yeah. 

Guest: It feels, it feels like that. And it wasn't that I was, I love that you said not right or wrong. Literally the out beyond is from the Rumi poem out beyond ideas of wrongdoing and Right doing, there's a field, I'll meet you there. And so that this whole idea of like what you did that day, now it became a podcast, now I've learned from it.

Now other people have listened to it. What you did for those eight months. Okay. In some ways it was out of alignment and you caught it and then you changed. And [00:56:00] it was a learning experience for all of us here. And so. It, it was just an interesting, I happened to listen to that back episode and it was an interesting thought where I'm listening to you saying it and it makes so much sense.

And then I'm like, and this time it's different for me. Yeah. And can I explain that to anyone who might be listening of why it was different this time and how did I decide to make a different decision from piecing together my own website and piecing together my own copy to hiring it done? And, and it's just a, I, I think it's just a unique combination of things that have happened with both of us in our businesses.

So I love that you bring in the astrology and kind of Yeah. Use that as a way to describe it. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah. And I think the body feeling like your body, knowing that it's right, bypassing the mental chatter. And then also not ha like it being kind of this unexplained, [00:57:00] like most people recommend this. But I actually am choosing to do this and honor this deep feeling in my body of why it's the right move for me, even though it might not make sense to conventional wisdom or, or whatnot.

Yeah. 

Guest: Yeah. And it was a series of, I think, I mean, many, many things, but the, but the one big thing that happened before was I had owned some crypto and had my accounts on a, we'll say JP Morgan, whatever, a man's bank name. And I was like, I have my money in Elon Musk in Doge, which now it's even hard to say out, out loud, but I did, um, it was before the Department of Government Efficiency, but I had money in that, those men.

And then I had my other money in Amazon with Bezos, and then I had my money in with this, with JP Morgan, like, and I'm like. Why do I trust these dead men or some of them living Yeah. [00:58:00] More with my money than creating the beauty of what I wanna create in the out beyond. So the first thing that happened before I even met Ciber Studios, C-E-M-B-E-R, who's doing my, my branding, they're amazing.

Uh, the first thing that happened was I felt uneasy with where my money was already being invested. Yeah. Does it on paper, would I ever advise someone to spend the 16 grand that I spent, given what my revenue was at the beginning of this year? No. I would not. Not for my private equity. Yeah. Um, you know, MBA standpoint, looking at the sheet, no, I wouldn't.

And I knew it was exactly what I wanted to do and, and I don't know if I'll sell any, I don't know if I'll sell anyone into the app beyond, but there's nothing I would've rather done over the last. Few months than to build out this brand. By the way, with Simba's help, and by the way, with Sarah [00:59:00] quotable copies help that allowed me to dream.

And they are bringing it to life. And it is the most magical creative, like I just got the, the quick logos and the colors nailed down and the textures they're gonna use. Uh, it feels I was stunned Yeah. With the beauty of what they created. And to see myself in those designs and my dreams and my ideas come to life with me.

Like with me as a part of it, is an investment I've never had had made before. Yeah. I always did it for the CEOs I was working for or the people who were on my team and I'd never done it for myself. And it is so cool. And so the photos are 

Kathryn Thompson: stunning. Oh, thank you. The photos are stunning. Yeah. Thank you.

Yeah, absolutely stunning. And I think it's a, again, it comes back to like, yeah, that there's, I think everyone has their own risk tolerance. Everyone has their own resources. Everyone has their own experience and, and [01:00:00] I think the message that I want people to know is that

like everything, you don't need to invest the 16,000 to be successful. You can if you want to, but it's like you don't need that to be successful. And I think the h what hangs people up is that they feel like they need this and this and this and this in order to be successful. And you invested in this because you were investing in yourself and you're investing in the belief of the out beyond.

That's amazing. Anyone listening, if they're like, well, I don't have $16, $16,000 to do that, I'm not gonna be successful. No, that's actually not the storyline. The storyline is this is a choice you made because you wanted to create something beautiful and you, and you are. I also think your astrology and your math is, is painting that picture, right?

Your, where your mercury is, your tellium. In the fifth house of creativity, you're here to create [01:01:00] things of beauty and creative expression. You also have the cancer rising again, that's like that well of compassion and nurturing and there is a therapy feel to it, right? There is that depth, let's go deep kind of thing.

And everybody else is made up differently. And I think where we invest our time, if we're doing it outta the sake of we think we have to, to make, be successful, that's the wrong energy. I think, I don't like the word wrong, but it is the, that's where you're gonna go down a path of misalignment. 

Guest: Yeah. It feels like it's the, it's the wording bell.

Yeah. It's the, somebody in a, in a conversation earlier today who was interviewing me about where I'm at and, and they were like, well, how do you, how do you continue building your business and push against the stress of it? Mm. How do you overcome the stress of building your business? And I said, and I was like, oh no sweetie, if I meet the stress, I go the other direction.

Yeah. There is no [01:02:00] over overcoming. And that does not mean that I have spent days crying. Yeah. I have been on the floor and my husband, I've had to say like, should I just go and get a job? Like it has not been easy to turn away from the stress that is trying to make me believe I need to work harder. Yeah.

It is not easy, but, but I keep, when I back up from those warning signs, I just keep finding more and more proof that I can still build a life that I want through following my desire. 

Kathryn Thompson: Totally. And if you think about the stress, I mean, I think about the stress that I endured in corporate. In my first brick and mortar.

And it was a hell of a lot more stressful in those environments because of the fact of the wellbeing, the inner peace. Sure. Financially, yeah. The money was coming in and Great, great, great. So any stress of like [01:03:00] creating wealth within a business? To me, the stress of wellbeing and health and peace, and that's far more damaging in my perspective.

That's a stress that I'm not willing to endure or overcome because it's not worth my health and wellbeing. 

Guest: Yeah. Like on the other side of stress. Yeah. It's, you'll often find it's just more stress, right? So 

Kathryn Thompson: yeah. 

Guest: So where, what impact do we wanna take? Take instead and, and I do wanna say with you on, if someone's listening who says what, $16,000, first of all, me, six months ago would've said, what the hell that, that's never gonna be me one and two.

If there is something that you desire and you write down a list of things to do, I bet you that at least one of them, probably more than half of those things are free to do. Mm-hmm. Like if you have something you really deeply want [01:04:00] and you write down the list of things that you want to do to get there.

Yeah. And then you'll need a list on the side of the things you think you need to do. Yeah. On the want to do list. I guarantee you there are free things to do on that list and start there. 

Kathryn Thompson: Yeah, totally. Totally. And yeah, I mean, investing in yourself and in a business is going to cost either time or money.

Mm-hmm. You're gonna spend either ti, you're gonna spend time for sure, but it's like, what? Where do you want? What do you wanna prioritize your time Building it? Your time building something maybe that. You're just scrap pieing together, which is totally fine. Or outsourcing that with, with money. And that's gonna be a total individual game because it, it, it's, yeah, your risk tolerance, your resources, what you have available, that sort of thing.

Guest: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's a [01:05:00] journey, isn't it? Isn't it such a journey? Wouldn't it, wouldn't it have been in some ways like so fun if it, I, I, three years from starting selling The Invisible, I was coming on saying, oh, this is the funnel I built. This is it. This is how many clients I got, and all of that. And then there's no other way than the way I've been doing for the last three years, which is Restoration, restoration, restoration.

Um, and I'm so thankful. Like you have been such a, I think, key part, I think that's the right word of, um. I was trying to think of it. Is it pivotal or it's key, but I use key because you've been such a key part because of what you've helped me unlock by giving an example in the world of an Entrepreneur who's willing to try things, who's willing to go against the grain, who's willing to say, I trust you.[01:06:00] 

Yeah. And I have returned to work with you in so many different ways, and I'm about to return to you again on this astrology thing. So I just wanna say like, formally put it in recorded words. Like thank you for always seeing me wherever I have been on this three year journey and so far Yeah. And, and where it might go.

Um, I'm so thankful for creatively owned for you and all the work you've done to help me continue to return to myself in this business. So thank you for everything you've done. 

Kathryn Thompson: You're welcome. And I, I receive that wholeheartedly because I think, I think summing up the work that I do, I think lots people look at me as a strategist.

Yes, I tactically can help people with plans and all the things, but I know that the more clearly I see myself in my own journey, I know I'm here to really help people create, like to create the conditions for you and everybody else through my own examples of living that, but also just [01:07:00] holding the space and creating the conditions for you to continually return to yourself in that truth.

That is what I do beyond marketing and sales and copywriting, which people know me as. But it's like when you come into my world, and I think a lot of people can attest to this, that it's like, it's not really that that we do and it's not even something we do really like, it's not forced work. Yeah. 

Guest: Yeah, I think it's fun.

I think, I don't know if this, I'm curious if this is how you see it as well, but both of us. Work in transformation with people who come to us and people kind of come through the marketing door when they come to see you. And with me, they kind of come through the operations door, which is both where our corporate lives were in some way, and then we both are, are different, but in, in a way return, do return to self work, do transformation work.

And I think it's really fun to see. We also have a lot in common about [01:08:00] how we like to get things done and then some things that are completely different. And so it's really fun to be in this space with you. I cannot wait once the out beyond, once the, once the gate is open to the field beyond, I'm really hoping to, um, have opportunities for people like you who just get it to come and spend time with my clients and to be in community together.

I really have been craving that as well. So, um, love that. Thanks again. Thanks for your time today. Thanks for inviting me here and I hope to see some of y'all listening in the out beyond. 

Kathryn Thompson: I love it. Definitely keep an eye on what Kellen's doing, um, and go check her out and go follow her. Where can people find you on social?

Yeah, so 

Guest: I, my website is the out beyond.com. Um, also I'm on Instagram at the out beyond underscore 'cause there's a band with like 12 followers that has out at the out Beyond. Um, and of course LinkedIn is a great place to reach me. You [01:09:00] can also email me at, uh, kellen@theoutbeyond.com. Um, so lots of options.

Also, I'm at the Kellen B on all of my individual. If you wanna follow along with giving myself haircuts with sewing, um, things from, from thrift stores. Not shy about my political stances. Uh, you can also follow me, um, on my personal stuff at the Lumby and everywhere at www.theoutbeyond.com. 

Kathryn Thompson: Amazing. And we will link up all of those links in the show notes for you guys to easily find those.

And yeah, definitely head on over. Give her a follow, uh, follow along 'cause Yeah, I am excited for the doors to fully open in October, the launch. I cannot wait to see the website 'cause the imagery that you teased is stunning. 

Guest: Yeah. Thank you. I'm really excited. Yeah, 

Kathryn Thompson: amazing. It's been a pleasure, uh, having you on the show, and I can't wait for this episode to drop.

Guest: Oh yeah. Thanks 

Intro/Outro: Catherine. Talk to you soon. 

Guest: Yep. [01:10:00] 

Intro/Outro: Thanks for listening. We'll see you right back here next time. You can also find us on social media at creatively owned and online@creativelyowned.com. Until next time, keep showing up as your authentic self.